tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post4828297656631742654..comments2024-03-01T21:01:15.174-06:00Comments on Biblical Christianity: More thoughts about the use and non-use of "Yahweh" in English translationsDJPhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comBlogger66125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-62731427029416527982011-02-28T15:57:54.786-06:002011-02-28T15:57:54.786-06:00Good stuff, good stuff. I have nothing to add or ...Good stuff, good stuff. I have nothing to add or subtract, except to say that Dale Brueggemann is a heavyweight - was a professor at Central Bible College (Springfield, MO) in the 80's and 90's, and a translator for the NLT (I think)... anyway, super-smart guy. Just like Dan.The Blainemonsterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13157965154638461280noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-51117267259811720132011-02-25T23:34:06.637-06:002011-02-25T23:34:06.637-06:00(I see that Dr. Feinberg's name really did &qu...(I see that Dr. Feinberg's name really did "give me" a double-take. I should have said his name "made me do a double-take". Sorry for the distracting grammar.<br /><br />NEXT!)Susanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08289347868497438542noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-24884045631808735472011-02-25T16:46:04.851-06:002011-02-25T16:46:04.851-06:00To Steve (not me): The HCSB also beat John Macarth...To Steve (not me): The HCSB also beat John Macarthur's book to the punch and translates doulos as 'slave' instead of 'servant', at least some of the time. It gets quirky, in my opinion, though when it translates christos as "Christ" when used explicitly of Jesus as his title (e.g., when called Jesus Christ) but many times changes the word to "Messiah" when not explicitly Jesus... even though my naive self sees there being only one Christ/Messiah in the theology of the NT, who is Jesus. Compare Ephesians 1:2,3,17 with 1:10,12,20.<br /><br />It's a translation that does a few things right (and also saves Lifeway lots of money in no longer having to pay Zondervan for NIV use!) but does a few things rather weird, too.Stephenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05657160848405432116noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-70534005247826677352011-02-25T13:45:18.072-06:002011-02-25T13:45:18.072-06:00Wish I could give you a prize. Seriously.
The usu...Wish I could give you a prize. Seriously.<br /><br />The usual, at this point, at Pyro, would be for the commentator to explode "What?!! No, it isn't! It isn't in the article at all! You never touch on this! I demand you answer my question! That you do not answer my question only proves that I have defeated you with my awesomeness, and you have nothing!"<br /><br />So, thanks for that.<br /><br />(c:DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-61326793761434487632011-02-25T13:43:09.438-06:002011-02-25T13:43:09.438-06:00Waaaaat? *re-reads post*
Oh. There it is. Wh...Waaaaat? *re-reads post*<br /><br />Oh. There it is. Whoops.<br /><br />The perils of skimming on a Friday. :)CGrimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03257084521984285384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-9599724967696205912011-02-25T13:38:07.332-06:002011-02-25T13:38:07.332-06:00Yep, covered in post.Yep, covered in post.DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-56189910030482720642011-02-25T13:29:55.505-06:002011-02-25T13:29:55.505-06:00I did a quick scan, and couldn't tell if this ...I did a quick scan, and couldn't tell if this was mentioned in the comments here, or in your previous post on the topic, but what about NT quotations of OT passages? For example, in Matthew 4:10, Jesus uses κύριον (Lord) when quoting Deuteronomy. It's of course possible that Jesus actually used the name "Yahweh" in his conversation with Satan, but Matthew, inspired by the Holy Spirit records it as κύριον.<br /><br />Another example that comes to mind is Paul quoting Isaiah in Romans 10:16. Isaiah almost certainly wrote the name Yahweh in his original text, but Paul quotes it as κύριε.<br /><br />Am I overlooking something?CGrimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03257084521984285384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-18789167892834033872011-02-25T13:03:46.160-06:002011-02-25T13:03:46.160-06:00"well, I didn't come in last..." ha..."well, I didn't come in last..." has been my mantra since kickball in the 3rd grade. I'm good.<br /><br />even if I can't spell wiped...<br /><br />al sendsAlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02659402617723892967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-24709638302854763012011-02-25T13:00:39.579-06:002011-02-25T13:00:39.579-06:00There are runners-up.There are runners-up.DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-66211355214935027552011-02-25T12:58:37.631-06:002011-02-25T12:58:37.631-06:00DJPon the KJVO crowd - "They are the single m...DJPon the KJVO crowd - "They are the single most embarrassing group of professed Bible-believers to me,"<br /><br />Al: Whipes brow, "WHEW!"<br /><br />al sendsAlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02659402617723892967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-68139672827602003762011-02-25T10:42:49.431-06:002011-02-25T10:42:49.431-06:00You'll see some in World-Tilting Gospel, and m...You'll see some in <i>World-Tilting Gospel</i>, and more in the Proverbs book.DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-50623710883555952832011-02-25T10:41:34.243-06:002011-02-25T10:41:34.243-06:00Thanks, Dan. Helpful post and helpful answers to ...Thanks, Dan. Helpful post and helpful answers to my questions.<br /><br />Perhaps you should work on a new translation?Aaronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15285043747501470199noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-14703365027405588872011-02-25T10:20:52.600-06:002011-02-25T10:20:52.600-06:00Oh, Stefan, it doesn't stop there. Add that th...Oh, Stefan, it doesn't stop there. Add that the only versions consistently representing God's name are either cultic (Roman Catholic) or obscure (Rotherham).<br /><br />It is simply bizarre. So many traditions of varying weight have been cast off, to good and bad result. Here's a tradition for which (imho) there simply isn't a good defense — and no "independent, new, fresh" translation will break free of it entirely. Not the ESV, not the CSB, not the NET, not the NIV/TNIV/NIV2010 -- and now not even the ISV.<br /><br />Just aggravating.DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-18774714042624293402011-02-25T10:18:19.416-06:002011-02-25T10:18:19.416-06:00They didn't use vowels when writing anything, ...They didn't use vowels when writing anything, strictly speaking. That is, the text we have is entirely consonantal. Vowels are supplied later, by vowel pointings (not letters of the alphabet). So YHWH is only exceptional in that some superstition drove later Hebrew scribes not to pen in the correct vowels, though versions in Greek and Latin supply vowels that validate the pronunciation "Yahweh."<br /><br />IOW, "David" is DWD and "Dan" is DN, etc.DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-64552630261087126762011-02-25T10:15:55.869-06:002011-02-25T10:15:55.869-06:00Dan:
I love that you're so passionate about t...Dan:<br /><br />I love that you're so passionate about the name of Yahweh, even to the point of (almost) being called a liberal by Dr. Feinberg!<br /><br />We should appreciate His Name all the more, because it is His <i>covenantal</i> Name, and without His New Covenant in the blood of Jesus Christ, we have no relationship with Him, and no standing before Him. And if we have a personal relationship with Him, shouldn't we use His personal Name?<br /><br />There are many very good reasons to appreciate the Septuagint—it's the Old Testament quoted by the Apostles and Evangelists; and we get our modern Old Testament book order from it. But on the other hand, it's freighted down with additional non-canonical material, and crystallized a superstition regarding the uttering of God's Namme that was evidently already afoot before the time of Christ.<br /><br />It's a travesty of the Church's neglect, that the only ones really pushing to use some approximation of God's Name today, are a certain heretical cult.Stefan Ewinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05530690016594029847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-22367976876989590842011-02-25T10:15:14.875-06:002011-02-25T10:15:14.875-06:00Dan,
Just curious, and not being a Hebrew scholar ...Dan,<br />Just curious, and not being a Hebrew scholar myself, I wonder why the OT writers didn't use vowels when writing the name of God? <br /><br />Stan, <br />I can see why you go by your middle name.Mike Westfallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06944727980772754938noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-43925151490579021252011-02-25T06:24:27.226-06:002011-02-25T06:24:27.226-06:00Thomas, I know offhand of passages that use the na...Thomas, I know offhand of passages that use the name alike of Father and Son; I don't know offhand of one that uses it of the Spirit.DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-57193528640675160482011-02-25T06:17:43.104-06:002011-02-25T06:17:43.104-06:00Steve, if I'm using BW right, the current HCSB...Steve, if I'm using BW right, the current HCSB has "Yahweh" 476X, which is a good start, but still about 6347X short.DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-51517853149156823792011-02-25T06:14:00.690-06:002011-02-25T06:14:00.690-06:00Yes, Susan; the very one.Yes, Susan; the very one.DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-41200992393246585072011-02-25T06:13:19.941-06:002011-02-25T06:13:19.941-06:00Aaron, don't ask me to explain the mental proc...Aaron, don't ask me to explain the mental processes of KJVO obsessives. They are the single most embarrassing group of professed Bible-believers to me, without one single rational leg to stand on.<br /><br />HSAT, transliteration is representing the <i>sounds</i> of words in another language (but not the meaning), while translation is representing the <i>meaning</i> of those words.<br /><br />Thus: <i>anastasis</i> is a transliteration, while "resurrection" is a translation.DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-19743045565872107732011-02-25T04:56:39.063-06:002011-02-25T04:56:39.063-06:00So Yahweh, is it the collective name for the Trini...So Yahweh, is it the collective name for the Trinity or for God The Father only?<br /><br />If it's only the name for God the father why is the Holy Spirit the only member in the trinity with no "personal" name?Thomas Louwhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08406486510590654502noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-90655370797257169382011-02-25T03:47:07.982-06:002011-02-25T03:47:07.982-06:00Thanks for this, Dan. I must admit, I'm a bit...Thanks for this, Dan. I must admit, I'm a bit conflicted...partly because I've trained myself so well to knowing that LORD = Yahweh, so that as I'm reading, I visualize it as Yahweh, but when I write notes/prayers down in my notebooks, I tend to write "LORD" all the time!! Now I'm feeling a tad convicted over this. Thanks for the hard words.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-62212329667227086502011-02-25T02:02:57.557-06:002011-02-25T02:02:57.557-06:00Dan.
I have just been educated thanks.
I always f...Dan.<br /><br />I have just been educated thanks.<br />I always for some “darf” reason though God had no name, because He is to Great to be defined by a name. <br />And that is why he told Moses His name is “I am”.<br />(Some bell is going off, Jahweh is I am)Thomas Louwhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08406486510590654502noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-81443736548329461372011-02-25T01:59:21.649-06:002011-02-25T01:59:21.649-06:00Dan,
The HCSB does as you say...in fact, the bann...Dan,<br /><br />The HCSB does as you say...in fact, the banner ads I've seen online boldly proclaim "the Name is YAHWEH"<br /><br />However, the publishers of the HCSB, an obscure translation (though it appears to be the SBC's sanctioned version), are phasing in "Yahweh."<br /><br />As a translator, I cringe, not knowing the second vowel of the name. I really wish that the superstition hadn't taken hold....because isn't this the "name above all names?"Stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10996764827876358273noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-29717981698845683352011-02-24T22:44:57.642-06:002011-02-24T22:44:57.642-06:00@Wes walker: my wife doesn't like me to refer...@Wes walker: my wife doesn't like me to refer to her as the spousal unit. For the life of me, I can't understand why.Aaronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15285043747501470199noreply@blogger.com