tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post2179333930467477872..comments2024-03-01T21:01:15.174-06:00Comments on Biblical Christianity: On Peter Masters' rant: in which I add only one small thought to Messrs. Turk and WilsonDJPhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comBlogger47125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-6102704172909248492011-07-06T06:20:37.278-05:002011-07-06T06:20:37.278-05:00In principle, all you say is true and vital and ne...In principle, all you say is true and vital and needs to be said. The weak spot is the leap from all that to rejecting a particular musical timing. What Scriptural warrant is there for that? It is a danger to conclude that a thing is evil <i>simply</i> because unbelievers like it. The beauteous sights and smells of the Tabernacle, in isolation, may well have pleased unbelievers equally -- yet they were ordained by God, and therefore righteous. Unbelievers enjoy mountain ranges, sun after rain, bread, their spouse's embrace; none of these things is thereby made evil. They are all gifts of God's common grace.<br /><br />The conviction you have, you may and should have between yourself and God, and you should be fully persuaded in your own heart (Rom. 14:22). But to conclude that all your or my convictions are universal values is a Biblically unwarranted leap.DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-57010851781932872372011-07-06T02:48:31.305-05:002011-07-06T02:48:31.305-05:00the most important thing is not my taste in music ...the most important thing is not my taste in music or anything else but what God says in the bible. We are told to be separate from the world and is it really a big sacrifice to leave behind rythms that many become addicted to? Jesus Christ left the dazzling glory of Heaven and suffered the Hell i deserve while dying on the cross. How dare i say my likes and dislikes matter? The only thing i as a human, and therefore sinner, have a right to is Hell and yet God has given me Heaven.<br />In the light of eternity 70 years isn't even a blink. What good is being like the world in order to bring the world to Christ? The fear of man is a snare (Proverbs 29.25).Love God and keep His commandments; John 14.15.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-17305643669655223192009-06-18T14:31:51.563-05:002009-06-18T14:31:51.563-05:00His response of not (publicly) responding?
Or did...His response of <i>not</i> (publicly) responding?<br /><br />Or did I miss something?<br /><br />Because, if Phil had responded, I'm sure I would have liked it better, too!DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-73075885942545167942009-06-18T14:26:24.273-05:002009-06-18T14:26:24.273-05:00Dan
Bleh. I didn't really express myself very...Dan<br /><br />Bleh. I didn't really express myself very well in that comment.<br /><br />You wrote: <i> A man with good standing maligns an entire generation of leaders and disciples because he doesn't like their style of music and worship, and you think the best response is, "Huh, well, lookie there. Oh well, I suppose if that's what he really thinks..."?</i><br /><br />You are not really being fair. I don't want to go on and on here as though I defend the article (cause I don't, as our coldplay-loving exile knows) but I think there is far more at stake than a man complaining about a style of music - it is, to quote the article, about a failure to place 'practice under the rule of Scripture'.<br /><br />There has been no shortage of engagement with the article, but there has been a lot of surrounding hot air and umbrage which I suppose is understandable if this particular style of writing is not known to all. I liked Phil Johnson's response to the piece.Jonathan Hunthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12341478626195362383noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-90126084227271210672009-06-18T11:11:03.864-05:002009-06-18T11:11:03.864-05:00Yes, but (tell in not in Gath... or the Met Tab) ...Yes, but (tell in not in Gath... or the Met Tab) that was the SOUND of U2 and Coldpay.Guy Davieshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09184743462264437085noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-65087439095579862452009-06-18T10:52:57.642-05:002009-06-18T10:52:57.642-05:00Gasp!
And you seemed so... so... so SOUND!
0c:-<i>Gasp!</i><br /><br />And you seemed so... so... so SOUND!<br /><br />0c:-DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-5630365933344053142009-06-18T10:51:19.965-05:002009-06-18T10:51:19.965-05:00Thanks for this post, Dan. Well said. I'm prob...Thanks for this post, Dan. Well said. I'm probably one the UK pastors that Masters criticises for sharing their liking of "worldly music" in their blogs.Guy Davieshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09184743462264437085noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-26329781309037346362009-06-18T06:46:14.529-05:002009-06-18T06:46:14.529-05:00Do you hear people saying, "Ooh, he should ha...Do you hear people saying, "Ooh, he should have kept that to himself, treasured those thoughts of judgment and slander in his heart and not spoken them"?<br /><br />Or do you hear them engaging the concept of what he said?<br /><br />A man with good standing maligns an entire generation of leaders and disciples because he doesn't like their <i>style</i> of music and worship, and you think the best response is, "Huh, well, lookie there. Oh well, I suppose if that's what he <i>really thinks</i>..."?<br /><br />I actually think that would be far more insulting to Pastor Masters. He is being credited as having said what he meant, and <i>his words</i> — which (if true) have dire and far-reaching consequences, are being dealt with seriously.DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-4112434815150587482009-06-18T06:37:58.347-05:002009-06-18T06:37:58.347-05:00He believes that what is happening WILL lead to th...He believes that what is happening WILL lead to the ruination of a generation of young believers.<br /><br />That is what he believes. You may all disagree, but would you be silent if you believed such a thing to be true?<br /><br />Lest anybody think he enjoys saying what he feels he must say, think again. He could have compromised his own principles (yes, you can disagree with them) and had a far higher profile in the USA and the UK, indeed the world. But he has not.<br /><br />I think folk need to just state where they disagree, and move on.Jonathan Hunthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12341478626195362383noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-27576576946681763852009-06-18T05:38:52.886-05:002009-06-18T05:38:52.886-05:00http://www.facebook.com/home.php?ref=logo#/scottty...http://www.facebook.com/home.php?ref=logo#/scotttyb?ref=profile<br /><br />i deleted my blog a few years ago and rarely comment on blogs anymore-there is my facebook feel free to be a friendSBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10420768244670972014noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-7860556497897364912009-06-18T05:36:15.503-05:002009-06-18T05:36:15.503-05:00Why was I not surprised to see Profile Not Availab...Why was I not surprised to see <b>Profile Not Available</b>?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-29030020518220179282009-06-17T23:45:11.954-05:002009-06-17T23:45:11.954-05:00I do look like a Troll today. Frank knows me and D...I do look like a Troll today. Frank knows me and Dan and I just became fb friends ;). <br /><br />TMC,GCOM, and GTY taught me the bible. John MacArthur is imo the best bible expositior in the country, but I think he is wrong about Driscoll(as I stated so do Mahaney and Piper). <br /><br />I have been a part MacArthur's church, seen correspondence from Piper, and am a member of SGM. Many of my friends go to Driscolls church all they learn is good theology and don't come home with dirty mouths.<br /><br />Also as I stated Mike Corley(see above link) is a guy who was changed and so was Steve Camp. Maybe Dr.Masters will change as well. We all have to fight worldliness, let's not shoot guys on our team.<br /><br />I am sorry about the duplicating. I wanted to reply to the paralel threads so I reposted and was in hurry.SBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10420768244670972014noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-31975760744120735142009-06-17T23:04:54.339-05:002009-06-17T23:04:54.339-05:00Is it OK if I go off-topic and don't talk abou...Is it OK if I go off-topic and don't talk about Driscoll? Please? K thanks.<br /><br />So I finally got around to reading the original rant, which pretty much comes off sounding like Dana Carvey as Grumpy Old Man (wait, is that reference too worldly?). One of his points really caught my eye:<br /><br />"Indeed, a far better quality Calvinism still flourishes in very many churches, where souls are won and lives sanctified, and where Truth and practice are both under the rule of Scripture."<br /><br />I see. Well, obviously this newfangled Calvinism the kids today practice certainly does not result in souls won or lives sanctified, which is obvious because of how they listen to devil music and raise their hands when praising God. No argument there. Can't think of anything more hideous, really.<br /><br />So what's the solution he proposes? Well, it's to make sure "Truth and practice are both <i>under the rule of Scripture</i>."<br /><br />And here I have no argument. For real this time. And I'm sure nobody who was called out in the rant would object either. Most certainly we all agree that scripture must be the authority over truth and practice, unquestionably.<br /><br />Since I want nothing more than to obey God as He has revealed His will in scripture, I would really like to know where scripture denounces loud music as worldly sin. Or where raising hands in worship is sinful (contra 1 Tim 2:8, Psalm 28:2, 63:4, etc). Or which scripture addresses "sensational nervous impact of loud rhythmic music on the body". Surely this must all be in there, plain as day, since those who practice such things are clearly unsanctified, worldly heathens.<br /><br />Or could it be that he appeals to scripture as the rule over practice, then blasts away at those who violate his traditional, non-scriptural standards? Hmmm. That would seem a rather silly thing to do, though. So certainly there must be a clear scriptural command against rhythmic spoken verse and electric guitars. Right?trogdorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11452996348717802065noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-72769127241675948972009-06-17T22:58:34.081-05:002009-06-17T22:58:34.081-05:00CR -
IOW, Paul's description of wordliness i...CR - <br /><br />IOW, Paul's description of wordliness is actually much <i> broader</i> than Masters? I'm with you - that is something to consider. :)<br /><br />I actually was mulling over these things while waiting my Burrito Factory order to be prepared, and passed the time by catching up on my reading through the Gospel of Mark (our pastor's summer reading assignment for our church). Interestingly, today's reading was Mark 7, where Jesus takes the Pharisees to school for making void the word of God by their handed down traditions. That seemed worth considering too. :)<br /><br />And for the record SB, since you've posetd multiple iterations of the same comments here <i>and </i> at Frank's blog, all with your Blogger Profile unavailable,<br /><br /><i>I</i> say you <i>resemble</i> a troll.<br /><br />I'd be delighted to be wrong.Rachael Starkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10781158372237369417noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-31191388630713631372009-06-17T19:38:43.846-05:002009-06-17T19:38:43.846-05:00cont. Romans 12:2 comes to mind
Do not conform any...cont. Romans 12:2 comes to mind<br />Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.<br /><br /> This something all of us have to battle with because we live in this world-I think Driscoll needs to renew his mind even more I know I do (Piper & Mahaney are helping him) but one mans worldliness is another mans style and hobby-cigars and watching movies(Spurgeon) are both worldly behavior in my book <br /><br />what say you?SBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10420768244670972014noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-23254555399355299702009-06-17T19:29:16.311-05:002009-06-17T19:29:16.311-05:00if Driscoll is worldly should Piper preach in his...if Driscoll is worldly should Piper preach in his pulpit? worldliness is to be "of the world" belonging to the world system-did you listen to the interview with mike corley?SBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10420768244670972014noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-67772814757941721892009-06-17T19:13:41.929-05:002009-06-17T19:13:41.929-05:00So, Piper doesn't understand worldliness becau...So, Piper doesn't understand worldliness because he associates with Driscoll and preaches at his church? <br /><br />Driscoll has been approached by other men for his behavior especially his talk at the Gospel Coalition. <br /><br />I don't understand what you are saying, SB. How is Piper and others showing brotherly affection to Driscoll, including reproof, proof that Piper doesn't understand worldliness?<br /><br />We don't need more of your links, SB, just define what it means to be worldly.CRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01912897040503058967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-52008461978808679332009-06-17T18:59:18.104-05:002009-06-17T18:59:18.104-05:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.SBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10420768244670972014noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-78307792688208143512009-06-17T18:51:03.919-05:002009-06-17T18:51:03.919-05:00CR you said, "I'm wondering if you really...CR you said, "I'm wondering if you really understand what the Bible says what worldliness is."<br /><br />I said you might be right meaning I may not understand what worliness is...maybe John Piper etc. don't as well as they associate with and preach with Mark Driscoll?SBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10420768244670972014noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-68588946503569776092009-06-17T18:45:26.931-05:002009-06-17T18:45:26.931-05:00Huh?Huh?CRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01912897040503058967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-43874451618572074312009-06-17T18:36:04.934-05:002009-06-17T18:36:04.934-05:00you might be right
maybe Piper, Camp, Corley and ...you might be right<br /><br />maybe Piper, Camp, Corley and Mahaney don't understand what worldliness is either?<br /><br />-sSBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10420768244670972014noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-81626274844185351282009-06-17T18:33:06.282-05:002009-06-17T18:33:06.282-05:00For the record, SB, I am not a Mark Driscoll fan. ...For the record, SB, I am not a Mark Driscoll fan. I'm actually critical of him. I'm uncomfortable with his bad language and my preference is not for loud thunderous music like "hip-hop."<br /><br />I'm wondering if you really understand what the Bible says what worldliness is.CRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01912897040503058967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-70807675574474078252009-06-17T18:24:53.168-05:002009-06-17T18:24:53.168-05:00CR sounds like Mark Driscoll I wonder Piper and St...CR sounds like Mark Driscoll I wonder Piper and Steve Camp get it and you all don't?SBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10420768244670972014noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-71216351758935380272009-06-17T18:20:29.049-05:002009-06-17T18:20:29.049-05:00Rachael,
Part of the problem is Masters confuses ...Rachael,<br /><br />Part of the problem is Masters confuses what worldliness is. When he writes about the merger of Calvinism and worldliness he includes incorrect items in worldliness. The whole concept of worldliness comes from Romans 12:2. <br /><br />The following passages in Romans 12:2 tell us exactly what the marks of a true Christian are: (1)their love is genuine; (2)they abhor what is evil; (3)they love one another with brotherly affection; (4)they're zealous in serving the Lord; (5)they rejoice in hope; (6)they're patient in tribulation; (7)they are constant in prayer; (8)they're constant in prayer; (9)they contribute to the needs of the saints and seek to show hospitality, etc. etc. etc. etc. There are several items I didn't list. Just go down the list.<br /><br />Biblically, if we want to know what is worldliness and what is the person who conforms to this world, just put a "NOT" in front of each of the aforementioned. That is a person who is worldly.<br /><br />Masters doesn't biblically define worldliness in his article, instead, he equates certain things with worldliness: (1)thunderous music; (2)a bunch of people raising of hands; (3) sensation-stirring, high-decibel, rhythmic music like rap and hip hop (which he calls drug induced music). He says that worldly cultures provide these bodily emotional feelings. <br /><br />To try to answer your question, Rachael, Masters is not trying to preserve unity (I'm not saying he is trying to stir disunity). But he strongly believes the items represented above show worldliness. He believes he is correcting the record. If you raise your hands, and e.g., listen to hip hop, you are worldly. Don't equate that with calvinism, he says. There are times when you preach you're not trying to promote unity, but you are trying to rebuke. And Masters would be right in rebuking, except in this case, he is wrong, because he equates the wrong things with worldliness.<br /><br />The problem with his argument is that, Paul nor any of the NT writers calls these things "wordly." You are worldly if you are "NOT" Romans 12:9-21. <br /><br />Just because you listen to hip hop doesn't mean you're worldly. Similarly, just because you are traditional in your worship doesn't mean you're not worldly. <br /><br />Spurgeon had it wrong also, Rachael, when apparently he couldn't commune with people who went to theaters. It happens to the best of us. But if his article can accomplish anything, it can accomplish this one thing: it will force us to go back to the Bible and understand what does it mean to be wordly (i.e., conformed to this world) and Romans 12:9-21 gives us a clear answer. I won't be thanking Masters for the content of his article because I think it's wrong. But I'll be thankful that it was brought up because I'm going to re-examine myself like we're commanded to do (2 Cor 13?) to make sure I'm not wordly.CRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01912897040503058967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-76729519005624405582009-06-17T17:50:45.517-05:002009-06-17T17:50:45.517-05:00-deleted above comment due to punctuation-
I comm...-deleted above comment due to punctuation-<br /><br />I commented on this blog for your perusal. I realize that you watch both blogs. I assume that Phil watches both yours and Team Pyro but maybe those in that thread do not.<br /><br /><br />I'm sorry won't do that again.<br /><br />My point is it's interesting that Masters lumps Resolved/MacArthur together with Driscoll. Piper, Mahaney, and Harris are also named. Each of them have preached at Driscoll's church & 2 of them at MacArthurs church/conferences.<br /><br />Personally I think John MacArthurs church is emerging at least in the singles dept.<br /><br />“Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing;…” II Cor. 6:17SBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10420768244670972014noreply@blogger.com