tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post6723858736106394199..comments2024-03-01T21:01:15.174-06:00Comments on Biblical Christianity: Sorry, but... WSJ article on apologizingDJPhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comBlogger21125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-84750632950090138002010-10-21T11:07:59.429-05:002010-10-21T11:07:59.429-05:00@Aaron: Just saying that this pursuit should wind...@Aaron: Just saying that this pursuit should wind up aligning our emotions with our will. We should find joy in repentance. We don't need to be led by our emotions, but eventually our emotions should reflect the fact that we love to seek God and His righteousness (by His power). Just like the more that we are in God's Word and following Him as Lord, the more that we enjoy and long for time in the Word. Does that make more sense?Roberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13987985549747283669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-16027575866013257622010-10-21T05:04:38.205-05:002010-10-21T05:04:38.205-05:00The Five Love Languages is definitely worth a read...<i>The Five Love Languages</i> is definitely worth a read. Very helpful book.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-30723487459016181092010-10-20T23:19:22.030-05:002010-10-20T23:19:22.030-05:00Well, speaking of apologies, I recently had a phon...Well, speaking of apologies, I recently had a phone conversation with an old friend from college (he's a guy). Toward the end of that conversation I was reminded of an incident in which he was extremely annoyed with me and as a result yelled at me and told me to "get out"--this, in front of another acquaintance!! Needless to say, I immediately left the scene and started to cry. So here I was, years later, telling him that he never apologized for this, and he immediately said sorry but followed up with, "How come I don't remember this at all?" Before I could recover from feeling surprised, he quickly said, "But that doesn't mean it never happened." Precisely. After he said that, I was okay with his apology. :)Susanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08289347868497438542noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-50015727176003614712010-10-20T17:36:00.332-05:002010-10-20T17:36:00.332-05:00Rachael:
If you haven't yet, read The Five Lo...Rachael:<br /><br />If you haven't yet, read <i>The Five Love Languages</i>. What you are describing is exactly what the author talks about in the book.Aaronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15285043747501470199noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-87623056998827072182010-10-20T17:33:34.630-05:002010-10-20T17:33:34.630-05:00@Robert: huh?
@DJP: Repentance is more than a m...@Robert: huh?<br /><br />@DJP: Repentance is more than a mere intellectual assent that something is wrong. I'd argue that as humans, we should have an emotional feeling of contrition.<br /><br />"Sorry" is a word and it means "regret." But obviously, people can conceal the subject of their regret by being vague or simply lying. And personally, I don't buy the whole mysterious language between women and men. Men know exactly what they are doing when they say "I'm sorry."Aaronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15285043747501470199noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-74066440357695972382010-10-20T16:51:36.095-05:002010-10-20T16:51:36.095-05:00I knew your take would be more Bibley. :)
The who...I knew your take would be more Bibley. :)<br /><br />The whole "language" aspect between husbands and wives is such a big part of the challenge! I've been thinking back to the heart of disagreements between my Phil and I. I can't remember a single one that didn't have at its foundation "Do you love me?", and its variant "Do you love me as much as <i>I</i> love me, and if not, why not?", even when it was about something like not being home when promised or leaving shoes laying around. And,like you call out, many times a weak apology is really about loving ourselves by trying to smooth things over with minimal cost to ourselves.<br /><br />In my dear quiet Phil's case, he's not a big verbal apologizer, and yet when he's had time to reflect, I'll notice that his actions do change in a way that shows me he's repentant, even though he hasn't said it. Me, being a woman of words more than actions, I'm good with the eloquent apology, but notsomuch with doing the fruits in keeping with the eloquent apology. At least, I used to be that way. I've been repenting of my incomplete repentance. No doubt I'll have more repenting to do tomorrow after I read your part two! :)Rachael Starkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10781158372237369417noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-10881596796933590162010-10-20T13:50:45.594-05:002010-10-20T13:50:45.594-05:00I think it is important to also have the emotions ...I think it is important to also have the emotions tied in with the will. Not that this happens overnight, and sometimes we have to act by will against our emotions. However, the longer we follow the path of repentance, the more we will truly feel sorry for when we sin against God and hurt one another. Now, if the will is not involved and we are remorseful (but not repentant), then we are just being guided by our emotions and making them our god. There needs to be a balance, though. Does the Bible not show God to have emotions (anger, joy, sadness, grief)? It is just that He exhibits them in a perfectly holy manner...we don't.Roberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13987985549747283669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-64657053460075533252010-10-20T13:27:38.595-05:002010-10-20T13:27:38.595-05:00Yes. I recall decades ago someone (Jay Adams?) say...Yes. I recall decades ago someone (Jay Adams?) saying that "Sorry" was a report on your emotional state, and had nothing to do with repentance.<br /><br />I don't entirely agree. There is a school of thought that makes repentance superficial and mechanical. You know, yesterday I checked the OK box next to Behavior X, today I erase that and check NOT OK, and I'm done. That doesn't dig deep enough.<br /><br />So I wouldn't legalistically seize on the word if someone were to say "Sorry." But (depending on the circumstance) I just wouldn't leave it at that. "Sorry" what? Sorry you were caught? Sorry to have to bother with it? Sorry I'm making a fuss about it?DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-51424257421346863232010-10-20T13:19:12.685-05:002010-10-20T13:19:12.685-05:00Hmmm. Thinking about "sorry". And I th...Hmmm. Thinking about "sorry". And I think sorry doesn't really mean much. Or maybe it means <i>too</i> much - too many different things.<br /><br />Because saying "sorry" isn't the same as confessing.<br /><br />Maybe it's better to say, "It was wrong of me to _____. I'll try not to do it again. Please forgive me." And leave 'sorry' out of it.<br /><br />But that could be kind of cold and mechanical.<br /><br />Trying to get at the heart of it, and <i>acknowledge</i> the feelings involved, without basing it all on emotions.<br /><br />Making any sense?<br /><br />JulieHerding Grasshoppershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15668974245505544238noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-52203181915608648632010-10-20T12:11:29.436-05:002010-10-20T12:11:29.436-05:00Other side of the coin. Psalm 119:165.Other side of the coin. Psalm 119:165.Rob Baileyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10893938431904825170noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-46212744929572308162010-10-20T12:05:47.252-05:002010-10-20T12:05:47.252-05:00Hah! I didn't even catch the irony that it...Hah! I didn't even catch the irony that it's <i>Canadian</i> researchers who did this study on apologizing. Sorry 'boot that, eh?Stefan Ewinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05530690016594029847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-5548157927696514492010-10-20T12:03:14.869-05:002010-10-20T12:03:14.869-05:00I loved the five love languages book. It helps wi...I loved the five love languages book. It helps with all relationships (works well with kids too).<br /><br />I think many of us are dubious about apologies because in today's politically correct culture an apology means "I'm sorry you're offended" not "I'm sorry I did this or said this." Apologies are rarely given that are actually meant. I personally hate apologies when I know they aren't meant. <br /><br />As a man, I'm not sure I understand the difference between regret and repentance (especially since the dictionary definition of repentance is regret).<br /><br />@April: I think part of the problem is that apologies don't always take the form of "I'm sorry." If my wife says, you should have done x,y,z, my response will most likely take the form of "You're right, I'll fix it" rather than "I'm sorry."Aaronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15285043747501470199noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-61711757446324824832010-10-20T11:55:29.978-05:002010-10-20T11:55:29.978-05:00"I speak as a theoretician"
LOL.
In al..."I speak as a theoretician"<br /><br />LOL.<br /><br />In all seriousness, much could be said about apologizing, and I can concur with my brothers and sisters here, based on my own experiences.<br /><br />What's interesting is that as the nature of my relationship with my wife has changed (for the better, praise God!), the sincerity of our apologies has deepened, as has our understanding of what it is that hurts the other person and why.<br /><br />What a wonderful, loving, forgiving God we have, through His one and only Son Jesus Christ.Stefan Ewinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05530690016594029847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-54474459424433486732010-10-20T10:50:38.599-05:002010-10-20T10:50:38.599-05:00To me, it seems that if we are really sorry, then ...To me, it seems that if we are really sorry, then our lives will reflect it. Yes, we may slip up here or there, but we should be sensitive to the areas where we are harming one another. Even if we feel justified in doing/saying certain things (outside of gospel presentation, reproving sin lovingly, etc.), if we know it will offend/hurt somebody then we should strive to not do it. This isn't the easiest thing to do, but if we are showing true love for others, then we should take it seriously when we say we're sorry for something. <br /><br />Taking this a step further into repentance of sins and our relationship with God, we know that sin offends Him...so we should be striving to not sin. The amazing part of this is that He provides us with the will and the power to do so when we empty ourselves of our own sinful desires and fill ourselves up with His holy desires. How sad it is to me that I don't fully tap into this and live my life by His power and for Him alone.<br /><br />I, too, am anxious to be in heaven where I'll be free from sin...especially pride and the fear of man.Roberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13987985549747283669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-26431282087394465202010-10-20T10:25:30.920-05:002010-10-20T10:25:30.920-05:00Dan, that's I think where it gets fuzzy. To b...Dan, that's I think where it gets fuzzy. To be fair to anyone, repentance is really something that can only be measured over time. While it's a "transforming of the mind" (did you coin that? I like.) But "I'm sorry" is generally (not always) something that is over a specific incident. <br /><br />Then again, you can't separate them, either. Because to the degree that one is "sorry" for having done X, to that degree his mind is changed/transformed (or vice versa) and will strive to not do it again. (Emphasis on <em>strive</em>, not literally never do X again.) <br /><br />All that to say, if by "I'm sorry," I mean, "I repent," that may very well be true, but only time will tell. Thing is, it isn't always the most conducive thing to a relationship to wait and see if the person is REALLY repentant before we forgive (or are forgiven).<br /><br />Oh, the tangled web we sinners weave. Personally, one big reason I'm looking forward to heaven is that I will finally be free from this body of death and sin.<br /><br />TomTomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04348984425778030040noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-22378002010622888422010-10-20T10:25:26.923-05:002010-10-20T10:25:26.923-05:00I was on a mission trip in Mexico a long time ago ...I was on a mission trip in Mexico a long time ago and one of our pastors had the embarasada slip during a sermon. Mild compared to my catastrophe with a slip while reading a quote that used the word "organism." I'm sorry.Rob Baileyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10893938431904825170noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-89444011835508096192010-10-20T10:18:52.099-05:002010-10-20T10:18:52.099-05:00True; I'm charitably thinking that both of his...True; I'm charitably thinking that both of his figures are exaggerated to make his point.<br /><br />Otherwise... eesh.DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-26604683249172703312010-10-20T10:16:11.518-05:002010-10-20T10:16:11.518-05:0036 years and only 5 "true" apologies? An...36 years and only 5 "true" apologies? Any person (man OR woman) who thinks they've wronged their spouse 5 times in 36 years is delusional.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-29275372147693044912010-10-20T10:05:53.670-05:002010-10-20T10:05:53.670-05:00Don't know that book, but you do spark a thoug...Don't know that book, but you do spark a thought. Though it gets nearer to what I'm talking about at Pyro, I'll share it here.<br /><br />This disconnect is why sometimes we (especially men?) have to ask questions when someone apologizes, or claims to have repented. It's important to know what the speaker means. Has he <i>sinned</i>, but all he's saying is "Sorry you're upset, now let's move on"? Or is it actual repentance?DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-6532625863796390472010-10-20T09:56:36.172-05:002010-10-20T09:56:36.172-05:00Gary Chapman's book: The Five Languages of Apo...Gary Chapman's book: <i><a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001OMIBPO?ie=UTF8&tag=thougstora-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B001OMIBPO" rel="nofollow">The Five Languages of Apology: How to Experience Healing in All Your Relationships</a></i> has helped in my marriage. His analysis, similar to his other book: <i><a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0802473156?ie=UTF8&tag=thougstora-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=0802473156" rel="nofollow">The 5 Love Languages</a></i>, breaks apology down to 5 things people mean when they say "I'm sorry". <br /><br />I can only remember 2 right now (mine and my wife's): when I say "I'm sorry", I'm only expressing regret. But when my wife says "I'm sorry", she expresses repentance and desire to change. When she hears me apologize, she used to think I meant repentance, and when she doesn't apologize (it's much harder to express repentance, than mere regret), i used to think that she doesn't regret what she does.<br /><br />This sort of communication clarity has helped us. we try our best to be abundantly clear what we mean when we say "I'm sorry", now.<br /><br />JMJJMJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01623913415313830829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-65656432050442190322010-10-20T09:37:04.818-05:002010-10-20T09:37:04.818-05:00Interesting post. I must admit I was a little sur...Interesting post. I must admit I was a little surprised by this: <br /><br />"If a man offers such an apology, then, is he lying? Is he harming his conscience, or insulting his wife?<br /><br />"In no way... any more than I am when I say embarasada in Spanish and mean "pregnant," though the word sounds like "embarrassed" in English. When he offers such an apology, he's communicating exactly what his wife hopes to hear, but in her language."<br /><br />See, even this is wrought with danger. Because the second a man knowingly say, "Sorry," with the intent of meaning, "I love you and care about you," you're opening the door for a woman to say, "You're not sorry for what you did; you're just trying to get me to calm down/appease me/leave you alone."<br /><br />See: no one would disagree over the <em>definition</em> of "sorry" or "I apologize." It's just that <em>in the heat of the moment</em> we hear different things. So, to add another kink to it: it's like using "summer squash" to mean "hamburger" when you're hungry, but use "hamburger" to mean "hamburger" when it's Tuesday. Get my drift? That should be sufficiently confusing. To say it like a man: that's illogical :-)<br /><br />I think one good -- not perfect -- approach is to be lovingly honest: "Honey, I disagree that what I did was sinful, but I can understand [or not] how it made you feel. It wasn't something that communicated love to you. Even though we disagree, I do love you and I want to keep the lines of communication open."<br /><br />Sumpin like that. No? <br /><br />Looking forward to these comments!<br /><br />Blessings<br />TomTomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04348984425778030040noreply@blogger.com