tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post8353827392089312817..comments2024-03-01T21:01:15.174-06:00Comments on Biblical Christianity: Pat Robertson: still a bill, still unpaidDJPhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comBlogger35125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-66331154235113184032012-09-11T09:02:59.439-05:002012-09-11T09:02:59.439-05:00Just to correct myself: what Pat Robertson actuall...Just to correct myself: what Pat Robertson actually says is “Probably 95 per cent of all the guidance we need as Christians is found in the clearly understood principles of the Holy Bible” (<i>The Plan</i>, by Pat Robertson [Nelson: 1989], 114).DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-18894039455475251892010-01-24T10:11:45.791-06:002010-01-24T10:11:45.791-06:00Andrew: I don't in the least mind you sharing ...Andrew: I don't in the least mind you sharing your perspective. I don't get why you aren't getting mine. Maybe too many words?<br /><br />1. Pat Robertson is only accepted as any kind of a Christian because Charismaticism has been unwisely mainstreamed.<br /><br />2. No mainstreamed Charismaticism, no soap box for Robertson, no identification of Robertson as a Christian leader.<br /><br />3. As a bonus: Robertson is typical of modern Charismaticism's perversion of the Biblical gift of prophecy, as Phil and I have pointed out at length and often. Slightly differing peas, same pod.DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-36379747947271404662010-01-24T10:08:46.735-06:002010-01-24T10:08:46.735-06:00Sorry; life has just been thus that I haven't ...Sorry; life has just been thus that I haven't posted the responses I meant to. Now, I will:<br /><br /><b>~Mark</b> - <i>Where do the Scriptures say that God no longer communicates with His people in a way that doesn't violate His written revelation?</i><br /><br />Let me ask you this: Where do the Scriptures say that God doesn't communicate by code using the number of revolutions in the propeller on a beanie in a high wind in Fall in Rhode Island?<br /><br />IOW, wrong question.DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-66182113291640826472010-01-16T11:04:30.996-06:002010-01-16T11:04:30.996-06:00Excellent post. Well done.
And good thoughts in t...Excellent post. Well done.<br /><br />And good thoughts in the comment-discussion as well.<br /><br />I saw Pat say on his TV show: "There are 100 diabetics being healed by God right now in the name of Jesus. 100 diabetics being healed of their diabetes. Only make sure you check with your doctor, before you stop taking your medicine." (paraphrased, yet genuinely true statement)<br /><br />He also claimed God told him it was a women who would be president in 2009, on Fox with Hannity.<br /><br />This man needs to come to his senses, and come down from the prophetic fences.donsandshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03665794015011057098noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-54880541053333621512010-01-16T00:22:51.772-06:002010-01-16T00:22:51.772-06:00DJP,
Thanks for the response, and I'm certain...DJP,<br /><br />Thanks for the response, and I'm certainly willing to admit my own stupidity here, but maybe I don't see what point I missed.<br /><br />My point is that you could find a number of good, biblical things that allow Pat Robertson (and Copeland and Hinn, for that matter) to go on, so pinning this back on charismaticism is just not helpful.<br /><br />For example, if we didn't have public preaching, we wouldn't have these clowns able to have a stage in front of a large audience. If we didn't all believe that God can still heal people today (even in a way that charismatics and non-charismatics alike are on board with), we wouldn't have these clowns saying that they are healing people. If we didn't believe that all good things come from God, we wouldn't have these clowns. And so on.<br /><br />So perhaps you see a link to charismaticism. I see a link to a terrible understanding of Scripture more generally.<br /><br />Although, I should say that I most certainly wish more charismatics would denounce the likes of Pat Robertson.<br /><br />If I'm still missing your point, I apologize.<br /><br />AndrewAndrew Farishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16500885575497425538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-32219898817852157852010-01-15T20:58:03.225-06:002010-01-15T20:58:03.225-06:00PS — EVER!PS — <i>EVER!</i>DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-47642339845265445112010-01-15T20:57:44.753-06:002010-01-15T20:57:44.753-06:00But again, thesgc, you're missing my point. If...But again, <b>thesgc</b>, you're missing my point. If it weren't for Charismaticism being "mainstreamed," Robertson would have no standing as a Christian spokesman. He'd have no base, and so he'd have no platform.<br /><br />And apart from that, I think <b>Trinian</b> was exactly right:<br /><br /><i>You know, this is a pretty major event here, and very close to his predictapaloosa. Kinda weird that God didn't mention something about this to ol' Pat.</i><br /><br />Yep. Instead of the usual ooooh and aaaaahhh gauzy nothings, you'd think "God" might've mentioned to Robertson, "Oh, btw. Tell all the Haitians to head off for the other side of the island. They have about two weeks."<br /><br />Ah, but that would have been <i>falsifiable</i>.<br /><br />And, thanks to Charismaticism, pop-offets aren't required to deliver falsifiable, inerrant prophecies.DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-30776723025883153312010-01-15T18:28:53.500-06:002010-01-15T18:28:53.500-06:00Based on the temptation of Christ, we'd have t...Based on the temptation of Christ, we'd have to say it's at least <i>possible</i> for Satan to cut deals with people. However, my point is that a Charismatic is, in my estimation, more likely than a TeamPyro type to believe in any particular case that someone actually has cut a deal with the devil (as opposed to just granting the theoretical possibility).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-35768771029512957212010-01-15T18:03:00.852-06:002010-01-15T18:03:00.852-06:00his Charismatic beliefs probably helped him believ...<i>his Charismatic beliefs probably helped him believe people could literally make deals with the devil</i><br /><br />To my knowledge there is nothing in Scripture that says a person cannot be contacted by Satan and then have two way communication. In fact, some commentators believe that a specific passage in Genesis refers to the sexual relations between demons and humans. Others believe that the spirit which was summoned on behalf of Saul, was a demon (as opposed to the actual spirit of Samuel).<br /><br />So although I think Robertson's comments were atrocious, is it not technically possible to converse with demons and make agreements with them?Aaronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15285043747501470199noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-13360544650317721402010-01-15T16:49:16.267-06:002010-01-15T16:49:16.267-06:00Hi DJP,
While I'd never want to interfere wit...Hi DJP,<br /><br />While I'd never want to interfere with someone taking Pat Robertson down a peg, and while you may have a point that Charismaticism has allowed a figure like Robertson to gain prominence, I don't think this specific incident has much to do with it. In this case, he didn't appeal to any supernatural revelation; he appealed to some bad history and an overly simplistic theology of judgment. Granted, his Charismatic beliefs probably helped him believe people could literally make deals with the devil, but then again that's a belief that <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witch-hunt" rel="nofollow">long predates</a> the rise of Charismaticism. Really, this could have been said by a good many conservative pundit-preachers, regardless of their stance on Charismaticism.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-42899754587213921522010-01-15T07:18:47.818-06:002010-01-15T07:18:47.818-06:00Andrew, you completely misconstrued my point.
Sec...Andrew, you completely misconstrued my point.<br /><br />Second sentence: "[Robertson] only exists because Charismaticism is accepted."<br /><br />In a healthy church that defined its practices Biblically, there would be no Charismaticism. Charlatans like Pat Robertson would not be tolerated. They'd be required to put up (the Word, pure and only) or shut up.<br /><br />In a healthy church, if a fraud like Robertson came along with his hondala-shondala and his "Oooh, oooh, someone in the audience has a canker" and his "The Bible has 94% of what you need to know" and his pop-offecies — he'd be shown the door, and denied a soapbox.<br /><br />As I said: he exists because Charismaticism is tolerated.<br /><br />No Charismaticism, no Robertson. No Charismaticism, no Hinn. No Charismaticism, no Roberts. No Charismaticism, no Copeland. <br /><br />I could go on, but is that clearer?DJPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16471042180904855578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-47838669890150864562010-01-14T20:17:14.649-06:002010-01-14T20:17:14.649-06:00Where do the Scriptures say that God no longer com...Where do the Scriptures say that God no longer communicates with His people in a way that doesn't violate His written revelation?<br /><br />(I do NOT agree with Pat Robertson. What he said doesn't even require deep examination to be shown as a fleshly-inspired load of...nonsense...because he based it in a human lie.)~Markhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01819856178499938127noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-25535369443767037592010-01-14T18:15:32.253-06:002010-01-14T18:15:32.253-06:00Wow! Turns out the "outraged religious leader...Wow! Turns out the "outraged religious leader" was none other than <a href="http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/01/14/white-house-robertson-remark-haiti-earthquake-utterly-stupid/" rel="nofollow">Robert Gibbs</a><br /><br /><em>Gibbs, asked about the remark, ridiculed Robertson. <br /><br />"It never ceases to amaze that in times of amazing human suffering somebody says something that could be so utterly stupid. But it, like clockwork, happens with some regularity," he said. </em>Paulahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15700962695127146890noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-80602880697280668992010-01-14T18:00:38.054-06:002010-01-14T18:00:38.054-06:00Not to derail...but if I remember correctly, all t...Not to derail...but if I remember correctly, all the news reports I read about the Minneapolis tornado said it <i>only</i> damaged the steeple of the ELCA church next to the convention center as well as some of the roof and then lifted. And it happened just as they were voting. And there was no meteorological indication that a tornado was going to touch down anywhere that day! It wasn't some widespread mass destruction like Haiti. Not that it necessarily means that it was <i>for sure</i> God's judgment, but it was pretty ironic how specific the time and place were.SolaMommyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07569633683299802644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-60524471664059298732010-01-14T17:24:50.726-06:002010-01-14T17:24:50.726-06:00You know, this is a pretty major event here, and v...You know, this is a pretty major event here, and very close to his predictapaloosa. Kinda weird that God didn't mention something about this to ol' Pat.Trinianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11862753729583546914noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-88208817423473785162010-01-14T17:21:30.973-06:002010-01-14T17:21:30.973-06:00DJP,
As a charismatic, I'd simply suggest as ...DJP,<br /><br />As a charismatic, I'd simply suggest as you mentioned that Robertson is wrong and not prophetic. The way we gather that is by weighing the words against Scripture- just like you are doing with his words here. Prophecies are to be weighed, and in that sense controlled by the Canon. That seems to be a major part of the teaching in 1 Cor. 14, and it also seems like exactly what you are doing with your list of his words here. In that sense it is only the many, many charismatic who simply aren't thinking biblically (you know what I mean, so please don't say that was redundant) that allow Pat Robertson to exist.<br /><br />All that to say this: couldn't we do the same thing that you did, but only connect Robertson with, say, everyone who believes in Satan as a personal force? "See, you all who believe in Satan open the door for a wackjob to say things like this, even though you would all suggest that his demonology is screwy."<br /><br />The problem isn't that Robertson is a charismatic: it's that he's wrong about this and a lot of other things, yet somehow has obtained a massive societal megaphone to tell everyone. That's the problem- not his being a charismatic.<br /><br />AndrewAndrew Farishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16500885575497425538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-73851405198416951582010-01-14T14:52:48.394-06:002010-01-14T14:52:48.394-06:00I will stop short of praying that a hurricane come...I will stop short of praying that a hurricane comes into Hampton Roads . . . but only just.RThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08285891444546787144noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-45280598830450440932010-01-14T14:14:16.370-06:002010-01-14T14:14:16.370-06:00I'm assuming that Fox is quoting Dan and his c...I'm assuming that Fox is quoting Dan and his commenters. Dude is widely read.Chris Andersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16315522922351775595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-57519805085277362742010-01-14T13:56:58.681-06:002010-01-14T13:56:58.681-06:00What-to-the-ever! AT LEAST HE CAN OUT LEG PRESS Y...What-to-the-ever! AT LEAST HE CAN OUT LEG PRESS YOU!! Ohh. Wait. Pat Roberson can out leg press any 3 NFL lineman COMBINED. Ummm...<br /><br />(door closes quietly)REMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18285866237413113428noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-24305053600488634422010-01-14T13:22:11.292-06:002010-01-14T13:22:11.292-06:00for Christians to send aid their.
send aid THERE....<em>for Christians to send aid their.</em><br /><br />send aid THERE...THERE!!! I'm a homeschool mom, I MUST correct spelling and grammar, even my own! It's a sickness.Paulahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15700962695127146890noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-22878833087386096422010-01-14T12:44:35.929-06:002010-01-14T12:44:35.929-06:00Ugh....Fox News just ran the story, although, than...Ugh....Fox News just ran the story, although, thankfully, they didn't run the embarrassing video. They also said, "outraged religious leaders called the statement unbiblical, unchristian, and arrogant." <br /><br />They didn't say who the "outraged religious leaders" were. Gotta love the "appeal to authority" damage control that Fox is engaging in. Who are these "outraged religious leaders?" Did they interview one or a hundred? Was it Rick Warren, Billy Graham, or Joel Osteen? Or Maybe Erwin McManus slipped the comment into a Doritos commercial. Maybe it was that Manhattan conglomeration convening a convention to speak as one united "Christian" voice on this important matter! The possibilities are endlessly intriguing!! <br /><br />Also, someone must ask the most Rev. Robertson whether it would be sinfully subverting God's plan for the devil-worshiping nation of Haiti for Christians to send aid their.Paulahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15700962695127146890noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-16753405407572133672010-01-14T12:37:02.704-06:002010-01-14T12:37:02.704-06:00Piper's commentary on the tornado is here, for...Piper's commentary on the tornado is <a href="http://www.desiringgod.org/Blog/1965_The_Tornado_the_Lutherans_and_Homosexuality/" rel="nofollow">here</a>, for anyone interested. My summary of the two:<br /><br />Piper: God is sovereign over all, including weather and disasters. Such disasters are temporal reminders of impending eternal judgment, and are always a call to repentance. Indisputably, the ELCA was at that very time acting to 'sanctify' damnable perversion and discourage repentance - and claiming the name of Jesus to do it! Stopping far short of saying this tornado hit because of the ELCA, he nonetheless draws a connection between an event designed to call us all to repentance and a church which is very outspoken and unrepentant about their sin.<br /><br />Robertson: Claims to speak for God that this quake hit because of a particular sin of Haitians, a sin which he completely made up. Rather than a call for repentance, seems pretty happy that God's anger was unleashed and those lousy sinners got what was coming to them.<br /><br />Perhaps this interpretation is colored by the past performance of these men, but so be it.trogdorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11452996348717802065noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-57548850519847281632010-01-14T11:37:14.172-06:002010-01-14T11:37:14.172-06:00Well, earthquakes are part of the Curse, and there...Well, earthquakes are part of the Curse, and therefore are judgment on sin. But, <b><i>without direct revelation from God</i></b>, it is impossible for us to draw any parallel between any specific sin and any specific aspect of the curse.<br /><br /><i>~Squirrel</i>The Squirrelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14082708506676251152noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-33902661826603597492010-01-14T11:30:04.168-06:002010-01-14T11:30:04.168-06:00John MacArthur's commentary on Luke 13:3 - &qu...John MacArthur's commentary on Luke 13:3 - <i><b>"...Christ challenged the people’s notion that they were morally superior to those who suffered in such catastrophes. He called all to repent, for all were in danger of sudden destruction. No one is guaranteed time to prepare for death, so now is the time for repentance for all."</b></i>Joe W.https://www.blogger.com/profile/03591135884255357946noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9313009.post-79336062921208245992010-01-14T11:29:34.229-06:002010-01-14T11:29:34.229-06:00I've always wondered why Robertson doesn't...I've always wondered why Robertson doesn't ask God why New Orleans went down, but Las Vegas is still going strong.Aaronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15285043747501470199noreply@blogger.com