Monday, July 07, 2008

Caner irony

Ergun Caner is irritated that young Southern Baptists feel themselves entitled to leadership without having done anything to earn it. Here is the core of his reported complaint:
"I think by and large, we have an entire generation of guys my age and younger, who inherited churches that run 2,000 [in membership] but have never grown a church that runs 2,000," Caner warns.

That gives them a sense of entitlement, asserts Caner. He says to go around "crowing" about something one did not have anything to do with, and saying "see what I've done," is ridiculous.
Interesting. Crowing about something you had nothing to do with is "ridiculous." Well, amen.

I wonder whether Ergun Caner voiced that complaint to his brother Emir Caner who, in the context of slandering Calvinists, once signed a comment "Elected because I selected." (Further comments on that, here.)

Yep, nasty thing, that — crowing about something you had nothing to do with, and saying "See what I've done."

Once again one hears the immortal words of Buck Murdock: "Irony can be pretty ironic sometimes."

Indeed.

16 comments:

chris said...

A paraphrase of 1 Cor 4:7 hangs in my office, to remind me; "What do you have that you did not receive?"

Hard to crow about anything with that in mind...

The Doulos said...

Seems to me that any pastor crowing about any success in a ministry or church that he has been a part of is just wrong. The results are wrought by Christ, not the pastor. As John MacArthur said at T4G, the ministry is the only career in which one can take none of the credit for success. But all the blame for failure.

Fred Butler said...

There is a small part of truth to what he is saying, but his theological incompetence utterly empties him of credibility.

Fred

DJP said...

Oh, no doubt. But it's the irony. It really ticks Caner off for these folks to feel entitled to something they didn't (in his view) "earn." But his brother takes the credit for his own salvation, since God responded (?!) to his choice... and that's okay.

"Theological incompetence" is a very kind description. Malpractice, even?

Highland Host said...

There's none so blind as them that cannot see. An excellent post. Unfortunately that's the trouble with consistent Arminians, they boast in their own salvation, which was in fact all of Grace. There is one thing worse though - boasting in the possession of that which you do not in fact have. That's not a caution for Dr. Caner only, it's a caution for everyone. "God forbid that I should boast in anything but the cross of Christ."

"Forbid it, Lord, that I should boast,
Save in the cross of Christ my God."

Daryl said...

Highland host,

You said "There is one thing worse though - boasting in the possession of that which you do not in fact have."

A painful and harsh assessment, but a true and necessary caution nonetheless. We do well to heed what you wrote.

Highland Host said...

I am NOT saying that Caner is not a Christian. I am saying that he needs to examine himself, as we all do. As I do, for example.

Daryl said...

Then I read you right, not an assessment of someone else's salvation but a caution that we must examine ourselves.

Sorry if I appeared to take you where you weren't going.

Mike Riccardi said...

...consistent Arminians...

Aren't those called Pelagians?

johnMark said...

Dan,

How ironic and how true!

So, what is the context for Caner's words? We can make general ambiguous statements of just about any topic.

When comments like this are made with no specific target I believe this can cause more harm than good. Very similar to the "hyper-Calvinist" talk that just stirs up the hornets nest for no good reason.

There are also young folks who are tired of the lack of sound biblical teaching, regardless of how old or how much of a "price" one paid.

The whole notion of paying price before you're allowed to reach a certain status is not a biblical principle that I'm aware of. Especially, when speaking of the calling of a pastor. What higher calling is there? Seminary president? I think not!

If the Lord puts a young pastor in place to lead a large congregation, that doesn't entitle him to anything in particular, but isn't that call enough?

What is all of this "grow" business? I get tired of older pastors who think that just because "they" "grew" a church that they are entitle to "run things."

When are we gonna get back to the Bible?! Man!

Now I feel better...

Mark

Daryl said...

Mike Riccardi...

strictly speaking, no. They're called Open Theists.

Mike Riccardi said...

You say tomato...

Daryl said...

Touchez

shaun m. said...

Yes, but what can you do? Oh well. :)

Stefan said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Stefan said...

(Posted comment to wrong thread.)