That a former VP candidate from the Democratic Party, a sitting non-GOP senator, would endorse John McCain? That wasn't big news, and was not reported as significant of anything.
That Colin Powell would endorse 0bama? That will be big, big news, and will be reported as thunderously significant.
Perspective: commenter "Blam" at FreeRepublic wryly remarks: "That’s it...Obama has the Black vote locked up."
Sunday, October 19, 2008
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Another commenter brought out this bright side: at least now, we shouldn't be subjected to those cyclical rumors and flutterings about whether Powell will/should run for the GOP Presidency.
Beyond that, I'm pretty much biting my tongue.
I'm not biting my tongue.
And this may offend some people, but don't tell me this endorsement does not have to do with race either.
I looked up Gallup Tracking on support by race: 48% Whites support McCain 44% Whites support Obama. 91% Blacks support Obama; 3% Blacks support McCain.
McCain is heavily more experienced than Obama on military. If anyone should know that, it should be Powell. He was either afraid to admit that (I mean he gave $2,300 to the McCain campaign already) or he wants to see a Black man become President, regardless.
I'm not surprised, but it is shameful.
Disappointing but not surprising.
While I respect Powell, I never believed he was a true conservative and I always feared that he had globalist tendencies.
Fears confirmed!
Rick Moran from American Thinker makes a great point that Powell has no standing in the Republican party or conservative movement or for that matter with the democrats. Many democrats still hate Powell for what going with the President on the Iraq war.
Big Media will also try to overblow the Powell support.
But since Powell was GEORGE BUSH's Secretary of State, doesn't BARACK OBAMA's leveraging of his endorsement give BARACK OBAMA closer ties to GEORGE BUSH than McCain?
Whether he endorses Obama or McCain it's still a pathetic choice. I can't believe it when I hear people will vote for either of those two candidates. More government spending, more taxes (overall), bigger government, print money to feed the "desperate" money supply and increase inflation as a result, buy mortgage paper, etc - they're basically identical on all issues (of course abortion being a big difference). The libertarian ticket is as close to the nation's forefathers than all other candidates. I can't force myself to throw away my vote on McCain or Obama.
CR,
I believe you are partially correct. I do agree that Sen. Obama's race was a consideration for Colin Powell, but I think what had greater impact was the fact that Bush dismissed Powell, and this was Powell's way of getting revenge.
Let's be honest; race certainly is a factor. While there are many Blacks that will vote for Obama because he is Black, there are also whites that will not vote for him because he is Black.
Dan, I apologize for my earlier post, and I appreciate your taking time to explain your reasoning. I certainly believe that we are citizens of the Kingdom of God first, and our behavior should reflect our citizenship. Sometimes, we tend to put our physical citizenship before our spiritual, eternal citizenship.
Ron: I believe you are partially correct. I do agree that Sen. Obama's race was a consideration for Colin Powell, but I think what had greater impact was the fact that Bush dismissed Powell, and this was Powell's way of getting revenge.
Let's see, Ron. Powell was promoted to a four star general and Secy. of State by Reagan and Bush and his son was appointed to head the FCC. Yeah, Powell was soooo dissed!
All right, if you haven't read/heard about this already, here it is: Obama supports a form of infanticide (and I'm NOT talking about abortion--I'm talking about babies born alive). Oh, of course he won't admit it, but it's true. Don't believe me?
1. http://www.albertmohler.com/blog_read.php?id=2630
2. Here's the Focus on the Family 10/17/2008 broadcast (listen to the whole thing--Gianna and a nurse will share their stories--and OBAMA's vote record will come up):
http://www.focusonthefamily.com/popups/media_player.aspx?ShowPath=Focus on the Family Daily&broadcastDate=2008-10-17
Okay, hold off on that Focus on the Family link--apparently the broadcast online is different from what I heard on the radio. Read Dr. Mohler's post while I try to find the broadcast I heard....
Found it--this was the one I heard on KKLA this past Friday night:
http://www.citizenlink.org/clspecialalert/A000008451.cfm
(The other link that I posted features Gianna only.)
Cr,
I believe that with all that credibility, Powell believed that his opinion should have carried more weight than it did in the Iraq situation. I say that having served as a military officer while Powell was Chairman of the JCS.
I am not saying that his complaint had merit; I am simply saying that from his perspective, he felt disrespected. I hope this helps.
Ron: believe that with all that credibility, Powell believed that his opinion should have carried more weight than it did in the Iraq situation.
I disagree, Ron. He presented to the UN Security Council evidence that Iraq was pursuing WMD. His presentation led to a resolution endorsing military action against Iraq. (He later described his role as a "blot" on his record). His opinion did carry a lot of weight and he was respected.
Another reason why I believe this is about race for him (other than he has never endorsed a very liberal and inexperienced white candidate) is the fact his reasons don't make sense. One of his reasons was the McCain campaign bringing up the Obama Ayers link. So, that's a reason to vote for Obama? Secondly, he said he was concerned with the Palin pick (even though Palin has much more executive experience than Obama). Thirdly, he says, he's concerned about the next Supreme Court picks??
I think this is more of a self-deception for Powell. He either can't bring himself to stay above the fray and not endorse anyone or endorse the better candidate especially when it comes to experience because he is afraid how other blacks will react to him (see liberal cartoons of Condi Rice) or he really consciously wants to see a black President and nothing else matters.
Back in August (8/14/08) Bill Kristol had sources that told him Powell was going to endorse Obama at some point:
http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/08/14/kristol-colin-powell-to-endorse-barack-obama/
"Weekly Standard editor Bill Kristol repeated Thursday that sources have told him they expect former Secretary of State Colin Powell will endorse Barack Obama , though the former secretary of state has denied reports that he will speak at the Democratic National Convention."
This information you note NNUTS is important in this way. It means that two reasons that Powell gave for supporting Obama(choice of Palin and Ayers/Obama link) are bogus because his support was prior to any Ayers/Obama ads and prior to McCain selecting Palin as his VP candidate.
I got into yet ANOTHER long discussion yesterday with a certain Obama fan because of this. 'Course, when the conversation took the turn it always must (toward abortion and Socialism) she did what she always does and changed the subject.
The nice thing about this is that every time I discuss this man the conversations take a turn toward faith due to his completely unsubstantiated claims of Christianity, and I've had plenty of opportunities to talk about Christ with people because of it.
Still, the revealed blindness of the people who admire him is unnerving in its depth.
You should see what happens when I go on self-proclaimed "pro-Black" blogs and ask for specific policies that make BHO a better choice. Then it really comes unglued when I ask how Black people can support a Brown-skinned politician who supports the biggest enemy of Brown minorities in America and beyond: abortion.
...And another thing... (hehe)
Some of the immigrants I know who've established prosperous lives her in the U.S. look at BHO and wonder how Americans can be so blind. These people lived most of their lives under Socialist regimes and identify his policies instantly as exactly what they fled in Europe.
I doubt that whites can understand the hostility you endure, Mark. I got the barest taste in the '80s, when I met and worked with a black woman one night. I was training her, and we got along splendidly.
Until I said something critical about Bill Clinton.
She transformed into a totally different person. She became unhinged, and just verbally wailed on me until her inner winds died down. And that was that, for that subject.
I suppose a black 0-booster would view my pallid self as wrong (at best), and racist (at worst) for not falling in behind The One.
But towards contrarian blacks, I'm gathering that there is an additional charge:
Traitor.
One irony:
Colin Powell served under George the first on the Joint Chiefs of Staff facilitating the first gulf war with Iraq. Joe Biden voted against any military action in Iraq during the first gulf war. Powell has just endorsed a guy whose running mate voted against the very war he helped to facilitate.
Where was Brokaw in asking that one?
Nice! We can hang BOTH Bushes around Obama's neck now.
My breath is bated waiting for the MSM to pick this up.
Wake me up if I go unconscious for lack of oxygen.
You also have the Powell doctrine(also known as the Cracker Barrel doctrine "If you break it, you bought it") regarding Iraq.
Powell has steadfastly said that we must rebuild and stabilize Iraq. Yet now, he endorses a candidate who wants to leave Iraq as soon as possible.
Even worse, no one on the left, including the MSM, stops to consider how dangerous an unstable Iraq would be for America and the world.
I am forty-one years old, and this is the most frustrating political season I've seen. The bias in the press has exceeded my worst and lowest expectations. It is just jaw-dropping.
Dude, I've got twelve years on you, and... well, The Nameless One's campaigns were close. But this is really, really bad, and the MSM is indeed dangerously despicable.
"But towards contrarian blacks, I'm gathering that there is an additional charge:
Traitor."
I'm a Black male, Conservative politically and socially, Christian (and conservative in that as well regarding sticking to the truth) and many other things that don't fit the stereotype of Blacks.
You better believe I've heard that word. I sometimes wonder if that's why God made me a loner by nature, 'cause that sure is the way my social connections usually end.
Believe it or not, I got heck for saying on a blog named after Booker T. Washington that we shouldn't force stereotypes on people!
When did we conservatives surrender the intellectual high ground to the liberals? When I was serving in the army I read voraciously everything I could that promoted conservative ideas. I read Strauss and Buckley and numerous others. They countered every liberal argument with a better one. It is what made me a solid conservative from Goldwater to Bush. Now I'm on the fence and considering a vote for BO. Here in Florida, my vote could matter. It certainly did 8 years ago.
Why am I thinking of supporting Obama? In large part because the tone of conservative republicans has become like a clanging cymbal. There is some kind of unwillingness to admit when the party has been wrong and work toward fixing the mistakes. It is some kind of circle the wagons mentality, crucify those who disagree, and act like miniature demagogues instead of rational adults.
The Powell endorsement is a case in point. General Powell said it has been a difficult decision for him to reach because he knows and likes John McCain. He provides a careful, thoughtful, rationale for his vote. What is the response?
He gets skewered on this blog and others I have seen today. He is called a liar, deceived, and even a racist by one poster here.
Your attacks are shameful, petty, and a disgrace to all that conservatism has stood for over the years. If these remarks are indicative of where the republican party has moved in the past few years, General Powell is absolutely right to castigate it.
Does anyone know:
How many sock-puppet profiles can one person make, potentially?
Is there a way to trace them, to find the IP address, say? Or is that only in Haloscan or WordPress?
Lt. Pratt,
There are a few reasons why some believe it is a matter of race for Powell: Shows us when Powell ever endorsed a very inexperienced white liberal before. Why now? Do you think he would have endorsed HRC had she won?
Secondly, two reasons he gave for endorsing Obama was his pick of Palin and the Ayers/Obama ads link (actually there is more proof of the Ayers/Obama link as a far as philosophy). The problem with both of these reasons Lt. Pratt is that it was known already that he supported Obama in mid-August prior to any Ayers ads and prior to the Palin pick. He didn't make it public until now. Bill Kristol already leaked that Powell was supporting Obama and Powell was furious saying the he didn't have time to comment on Kristol's musings. So, Powell, needed a reason he could make to support Obama.
We have every right to question his responses. He may actually be self-deceived and really believe it's not about race. But unless you can show us any inexperienced (which Obama is) very liberal (which Obama is) white politicians Powell has supported and unless you can explain to us why he was already supporting Obama in mid-August prior to Ayers ads and Palin pick, then I'm going to stick with the position that Powell's pick is all about race.
DJP- what's a sock puppet?
CR- I'm sure General Powell never endorsed a white liberal for president but that's not relevant. He seems like a moderate who leans conservative. He did endorse a very inexperienced white conservative in 2000. I don't know if he would have endorsed Clinton if she had won. I will not speculate about that. One thing you learn real well in the army is not to specualte because that gets you killed.
Your second contention is pure speculation. You have no evidence that he supported Obama prior to his endorsement. You have speculation by a neoconservative columnist that General Powell dislikes. That is all.
Having served in the army under several generals, but not Powell, I have found the vast majority of them to be of their word. If General Powell says he hadn't made up his mind until recently, I believe him.
You brought up two things, the Palin pick and the Ayers stuff. Palin is a big reason why I am leaning towards Obama now. I have watched her for several weeks and I am truly amazed how little she knows. I agree with General Powell that she is nowhere near ready to be president if something happens to John McCain. Palin as president is a frightening thought to me.
The Bill Ayers stuff is also not relevant in the way McCain is using it. If I remember, HRC tried to bring it up, too, and that turkey didn't fly then ether. The non-partisan fact check websight has investigated the Ayers/Obama connection and determined that there is nothing there.
I am not dumb enough to think I'll persuade you or anyone here that General Powell is a good man who does not deserve what you all are doing to him. I needed to say it anyway.
In case you were wondering, yes, I am black. So if I vote for Barack Obama does that mean I am racist too?
Lieutenant Pratt:
Conservative principles are larger than the principals involved.
On what basis would a true conservative vote for Obama? Would it be his tax policies, his socialist agenda, nationalized health care? Or would it be his position on abortion and infanticide that would attract a conservative thinker.
A true conservative could not support Obama on any ideological grounds any more than they could spend twenty-years listening to sermons by Reverend Wright.
You can vote however you wish, but let's not pretend that it is the narrow minded conservatives who brought you to this place.
After all, it is conservative speakers who need bodyguards on college campuses. It is the left who would like to reign-in talk radio through the "Fairness Doctrine."
Like Mark, I am a black conservative. So any serious political discussion I might have with someone from the left is often shut-down with charges of self-loathing or being an Uncle Tom. You know, like Harry Belafonte and others did to Condoleezza Rice and Colin Powell when he was serving in the Bush administration.
That is not what I would describe as "intellectual high ground."
It means LP you support the biggest murderer of black and brown babies in the United States. Abortion. So frankly, it sure doesn't make you someone bringing the ethnicities together.
Plus it would be a vote for socialism.
Dan: Does anyone know:
How many sock-puppet profiles can one person make, potentially?
Is there a way to trace them, to find the IP address, say? Or is that only in Haloscan or WordPress?
Dan if you were a member of the MSM you could do the aforementioned plus look up people's tax records.
In case you were wondering, yes, I am black. So if I vote for Barack Obama does that mean I am racist too?
LT: I'm pretty sure you're only considered racist (by the media) if you're Caucasian and don't choose to vote for a person of color. For instance, I have little doubt that most MSMs would consider me--a religious, conservative, small-town-dwelling red stater--a racist, despite the fact that my decision not to vote for Sen. Obama is based on a great number of irreconcilable differences, none of which have anything to do with his race.
And, as an aside, I for one would have loved to see J.C. Watts run this year.
Well, it seems there is good company here on this topic! I, too, am a Black male, and I cannot support Sen. Obama. Lt. Pratt, I am a former Naval Officer who had the privilege of serving under Colin Powell while he was chair of the JCS. I believe his endorsement is more sour grapes with the Bush administration than anything else. As Cr mentioned, his reasons don't make sense. Did race play a factor? Yes, but not as much as some people may think. Obama is a shrewd tactician. He knows that he is going to get the overwhelming majority of the Black vote, and among the younger generation, color is not that much of a factor. So, he is counting on younger liberals who are less concerned with character and principles to support him. I do give him credit for one thing, though - he has been pretty forthright about what he intends to do if elected president.
Lt Pratt: Why am I thinking of supporting Obama? In large part because the tone of conservative republicans has become like a clanging cymbal.
So, let me see if I understand this. There are many important issues coming up in this election: economy, judges, abortion, national defense, international issues (Biden has already said, expect Obama to be tested...who knows, maybe China will invade Tawain and Russia will invade Ukraine) and you say in large part because of the "tone" of conservatives, you're thinking of voting for Obama? I can't think of a more irresponsible stewardship of your vote??? Your vote should be based on the issues and on which candidate you believe to be qualified. Not the "tone" on supporters.
Should a liberal consider voting for McCain because of the tone of liberals on the Daily Kos and Huffington Post?? What about their tone?
We just had a guy come on this blog by started off saying he was leaning towards McCain, but then based on a few comments on this blog, huffed and puffed out of here and said he was throwing his support Obama.
It's this kind of irrationality that makes people suspect whether you guys are for real? I mean, I could see 20 something year olds make irrational decisions like these, but not an older adult.
Yep - some of it, anyway. Jam abortion down the nation's throat, as his first act, for starters. Then raise everyone's taxes by letting Bush cuts die, raise the death tax, declare surrender in Iraq... he's laid out a bit.
Dan,
I agree. That is why we as believers must develop a criteria based on a Biblical worldview, and not just secular issues. Two books I recommend reading:
1. The Scandal of Evangelical Politics
2. The myth of a Christian Nation
They were very helpful in keeping focused on the larger issues.
Dan,
You are clearly a racist.
Well, I... I... I am a race, I guess. Not the whole race, but, I mean, I'm in one, so....
Seriously, sometime let me tell you about the time I was called a racist.
Mesa Mike said "You are clearly a racist."
Wow, Mike, that is a pretty harsh judgement. I see the word used so much that I am sure people do not know what a racist truly is. But why are we digressing from the real issue? Can we not have differing views yet still respect one another? I hearken to Romans 14. I pray that our beliefs will not cause others to stumble. We are all citizens of the Kingdom of God first and foremost.
MM was talking to me, and I'm pretty sure he was joking.
I have been called many things in my 66 years but never a supporter of murderers until this blog. Mark is way off base. Barack Obama has never murdered anyone and does not condone such. I have killed men (in war) and it is not an easy thing to live with at times. I convince myself that they were evil but sometimes I think they were just doing their job like I was. I have had many sleepless nights since Vietnam.
CR said there are some important issues in this election and he os right. I rank them as follows and who i think is more qualified
-the econmoy--Obama but only because McCain has shown he doesn't have a clue
-international issues--tied but I give the edge to Obama because Biden has a lot of experience here while Palin has none
-judges and abortion--Palin. I don't believe McCain cares about the issue except to win some votes
-national defense--both are qualified and both will defend this country
-health care--Obama by a large margin
Please don't start with the socialist line again. when you do you make yourselves look stupid because you know well that Obama is not a socialist and is not advocating anything close to socialism.
-
So, Lt. Pratt, I'm confused. You said, initially, that you were in "large part" (your words, not mine) thinking about supporting Obama because of the tone of conservatives. You do understand it's nonsense to decide a vote based on tone of supporters, right?
You list some of the important issues. Can I assume now, that your vote will be in large part on the issues and not the tone of conservatives?
I think you're wrong on who best to handle the issues but that is going beyond the subject of this post.
CR- correct, it will be the issues that I vote on. I probably should have said that in part one of the reasons I have been considering Obama is the tone of conservatives.
Let me put it this way and see if I can help you understand my thinking. You and others say it matters who Obama associates with and what his supporters say. That's why his inconsequential association with Ayers and what Rep. Lewis and Rev. Wright have said matters. But then on the other hand you say it doesn't matter what McCain's supporters and associates say about Obama. To me, it matters what both sides are saying, especially when it isn't true. In my judgment, the right wing republicans have been far more caustic then there left wing counterparts.
And I agree with General Powell that this vocal wing of the GOP is trying to push the party hard to the right. That will alienate more and more people and make the party less effective.
Dan likes for us to stay on topic and you could probably do a search on Rev. Wright issues. I can't recall if Ayers was done on that and unless he revists that suffice to say, these associations are not merely (when it comes to Ayers and Wright)inconsequential
Also, suffice, I think some of us have already argued, we can't find any compelling evidence that Powell's endorsement of Obama is anything other than race. Obama differ vastly from the issues and Powell has never endorsed a very liberal and experienced white candidate. And we're not just picking on Powell, here, that's just the topic, but even conservatives, like JC Watts and other black conservatives like radio show hosts have been on record to say they are "conflicted" on Obama.
There is no reason for them to be "conflicted" on Obama nor was there any valid reason for Powell to support, other than the reason of race since both Obama and McCain are vastly different when it comes to experience and the issues.
I meant to say, inexperienced candidate, not experienced, which Obama is.
"Please don't start with the socialist line again. when you do you make yourselves look stupid because you know well that Obama is not a socialist and is not advocating anything close to socialism."
~First, define "murder" for me and tell me why abortion isn't murder.
Second, I will take the word of no less than 8 people, the youngest of whom is 42, who grew up in Socialist countries who know what Socialism is as well as my own recognition because I can read Socialist doctrine and compare it with what another person says, over your insistence that I'm making "us" look stupid.
I mean really, how tough is it to read a doctrine and then read another doctrine, and then compare? It's pretty simple actually. It's statements like this on your behalf which I get from mr. Obama's supporters on a consistent basis and makes me discount the possibility that they're using rational compare/contrast techniques to select a favored politician.
Thought I'd quote a statement from Juan Williams about the Powell endorsement on Obama. He was asked this on Fox News yesterday. Juan Williams is very liberal. He is a Fox News contributor from NPR (which is also liberal). He and Brit Hume always get into arguments on Fox News Sunday, so Juan is a certified liberal. He was asked if Rush Limbaugh's statement about this having to do with race was correct and asked if Limbaugh had a point. Here is his response.
Of course he does. Of course it has to do with race. It has a lot to do with this sort of senior black man, sort of the original crossover race star in American politics, Colin Powell; I think reaching out to this younger black man, and I think in so many ways it goes beyond race. But I think Rush Limbaugh's right, if he says race is a definite factor here. In terms of his legacy, I think this will stand as a real monument reaching out to the -- potentially, the -- first black president of the United States.
Hi Dan, all,
Perhaps this article will shed a little more light:
http://joerepya.typepad.com/eaglesnest/2008/10/colin-powells-no-surprise---october-surprise.html
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