Thursday, July 09, 2009

The question is not whether the Episcopal Church has jumped the shark

Rather, the question is whether it can even still see the dim image of a dorsal fin in the rear-view mirror.

For instance.

For another instance.

For yet another instance.

24 comments:

Truth Unites... and Divides said...

The dim image of the dorsal fin disappeared about 40 years ago.

My uneasy concern is that the Episcopal Church is a leading indicator for the direction that America is going.

Associate-to-the-Pastor said...

What? I can't even process those comments about individual salvation.

So is our heresy a corporate one or are all of us individually heretics?

DJP said...

LOL; I like it.

Jay said...

Let me start by saying I love women, wouldn't want there to be a world without them.
But in the case of the "Very Reverend" Ragsdale I wonder if she is the type of woman in the church that Paul was referring to in 1 Corinthians 14:33-35?

Solameanie said...

Jumping the shark? No, I think we've reached the point where the shark ate the oxygen tank and Roy Scheider shoots it. The blood, metal and shark guts are chumming the water.

Mesa Mike said...

I know ECUSA-bashing is in vogue amongst us Reformed, but isn't Schori actually correct on this point?: that "it is heresy to believe that an individual's prayer can achieve a saving relationship with God. 'That individualist focus is a form of idolatry, for it puts me and my words in the place that only God can occupy.'"

She, of course, is wrong in insisting that it is heresy to believe that we can be saved as individuals.

Jay said...

MM,
I thought the same thing about that particular part of her comments. Saying the little scripted prayer doesn't save anyone.

However, it is apparent she has no real discernment when it comes to what is heresy.

I don't agree with you on this post being "ECUSA-bashing" though.

DJP said...

Oh?

It was supposed to be....

Stan McCullars said...

Today's oxymoron:

Episcopal Church

Jay said...

Uh..sorry then. I didn't take it as bashing so much as pointing out the obvious truth of ECUSA's trainwreck existence.

Bashing it is then! Release the hounds!

Rachael Starke said...

Mesa Mike -

Even a broken non-bishop can be right twice a day.

And it would be fascinating to find out what isn't heretical about salvation. You know, whether she thinks it's actually possible in any sense, and what it looks like.

I'm guessing words like wholeness, oneness, community, environment, and Barack Obama would feature prominently.

boredwiththedrivel said...

It's clearly the case that much of the Episcopal church has leapt off the deep end. But don't you folks have anything better to do than to keep harping on it?

First, while I know how good self-righteous proclamations (and snide comments) feel, isn't there anything more interesting to worry over? Neither your amazing insight that the ECUSA is in big trouble (where've you been the last few decades?)nor your silly put-downs are impressive. (Frankly, it's hard to take seriously the judgments of people who would put on their computer a count-down clock to their hero's birthday. How far is that from worship?)

Second, believe it or not, there are good orthodox evangelical Episcopal pastors and churches (and please don't get side-tracked on some "evangelical equals Arminian equals loser" tirade) whose ministry isn't made easier by being the butt of your put-downs. Maybe some encouragement?

What's something else you can worry about? How about arrogance in the church? Or maybe something like this: so-called Christians who put much less effort into reaching the lost and building up the body as they do snickering over their cute comments on blogs.

DJP said...

You mean... like ministry?

Truth Unites... and Divides said...

"Allow the lunge. Step aside.

Mayhem."


DJP, is "You mean... like ministry?" a mayhem move on BoredWithDrivel's comment?

Stan McCullars said...

boredwiththedrivel: Funny name. I'm bored with those who comment and remain anonymous.

believe it or not, there are good orthodox evangelical Episcopal pastors and churches... whose ministry isn't made easier by being the butt of your put-downs. Maybe some encouragement?

OK. Encouragement it is.

Then I heard another voice from heaven saying,

“Come out of her (Babylon the great), my people, lest you take part in her sins, lest you share in her plagues; for her sins are heaped high as heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities. Pay her back as she herself has paid back others, and repay her double for her deeds; mix a double portion for her in the cup she mixed. As she glorified herself and lived in luxury, so give her a like measure of torment and mourning, since in her heart she says, ‘I sit as a queen, I am no widow, and mourning I shall never see.’ For this reason her plagues will come in a single day, death and mourning and famine, and she will be burned up with fire; for mighty is the Lord God who has judged her.”
(Revelation 18:4-8 ESV)

Truth Unites... and Divides said...

BoredWithTheDrivel,

Are you attending or a member of The Episcopal Church?

The Squirrel said...

TU&D:

I think you meant, "Are you now, or have you ever been, a member of The Episcopal Church?" And don't forget to use the bright lights and the 50's style hats & suits.

:o)

~Squirrel

Truth Unites... and Divides said...

Alright Squirrel,

If I'm going to have to use the bright lights, then I'm going to do the Laurence Olivier character in "The Marathon Man" in the scene interrogating Dustin Hoffman with the big dentist drill.

After a while, if I don't get the truthful answer, I'll be bored with that dribble.

Jay said...

BWTD said "What's something else you can worry about? How about arrogance in the church? Or maybe something like this: so-called Christians who put much less effort into reaching the lost and building up the body as they do..."

make anonymous put downs of the blog host and commentators using a newly created identity and sounding just like what they are criticizing?

And to appease you I'll add some encouragement to the ECUSA:
REPENT!

lee n. field said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Susan said...

1. Jumping the shark? Too late! Just ask that lady who didn't get her shark fin soup!! (Yes. HER.)

2. What does "Her Excellency" perceive to be the proper means through which a person may be saved? While I agree that our prayers in and of themselves don't save us, yet a true convert will indeed pray on his own to the Lord for repentance (in some way, shape, or form). Does she propose that the congregants sign a written collective prayer and burn it at the altar? Does that solve the individualist idolatry problem??

DJP said...

Susan, have you seen some of the editings of the recent in-German movie on Hitler, that put various sets of sutbtitles on it? One's about grammar. There's even a recent one about Michael Jackson's death.

One or two are hysterical, but have some really bad language, so I can't put them up.

Well, maybe someone with skills ought to edit the shark fin lady to express her dismay about various things. Like this Episcopilpalpalian priestess.

Susan said...

Yes, Dan, I have seen the Hitler clip remakes (one of them being linked from either here or Pyro). They are hilarious! Haven't seen the Michael Jackson one, though--will do that in 5 minutes.

Edit the shark fin lady clip, eh? Can't wait to watch that!

Joshua Cookingham said...

They haven't jumped the shark....THEY'VE NUKED THE FRIDGE!!!!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuking_the_fridge

I think that calling a mass murderer a 'martyr' is far worse than jumping over a shark. Only one who nukes a fridge is guilty of stupidity such as this.