Hey look, they can't all be masterpieces.
If you bail — and you should! — just think about this.
As your dutiful host, I had to listen to the whole thing.
THE. WHOLE. THING.
The presumption of many folks like Longman (here) and his defenders is that we can shave off some select unpopular Biblical teachings here, without a negative impact on other equally-unpopular Biblical teachings there.Much as I agree with myself, my favorite comment still is the first, from a commenter named pduggie:
A secondary presumption is that any reading that today's flock of intelligentsia do not consider sufficiently "sophisticated" or "nuanced" should eo ipso be left at the roadside.
Unfortunately for both of those assumptions, there is a steady core of us Evangelicals who do remember history that stretches back more than ten years, and thus remember how the exact same line of argument in the late 1800s led to the apostasy and liberalism that vitiated the professing church through the 1900s, no matter how loudly and forcefully we are urged that "this time, it's different!"
We also remember that some of the first defectors maintained some core Christian beliefs that they liked, without the other equally-Biblical beliefs that they didn't — for awhile. But then their disciples applied their own premises more considerably, with an inevitable jettisoning of more and more core belief, until the core was pretty much gone.
So we decline the invitation to hop on the latest float in the parade, knowing (remembering!) that the ephemeral roses which make floats so pretty today won’t smell so sweet tomorrow.
Yep, I have a sin nature because of something some guy did in a story.UPDATE: Oh, dear. I should have predicted this. Don't miss the "Doubt as heroic" meme in the first meta linked, above.
I thought Barack Obama would be a poor and troublesome president. Did I think he would yuk it up with Hugo Chávez, smirk with Daniel Ortega about the Bay of Pigs, turn his wrath on a Central American country trying to follow its constitution, denounce President Bush abroad, bow to the king of Saudi Arabia, endorse a radical Middle Eastern view of how Israel came into being, knock Western countries that try to protect Muslim girls from unwanted shrouding, invite the Iranian regime to our Fourth of July parties, stay essentially mute in the face of counterrevolution in Iran, squeeze and panic Israel, cold-shoulder the Cuban democrats in order to warm to the Cuban dictatorship, scrap missile defense in Eastern Europe, and refuse to meet with the Dalai Lama — in addition to his attempts to have government eat great portions of American society? No, I did not. You?

To those disappointed the dispensational view has been left behind: It would unbalance the debate to have two premillennials. And we can only fit so many around the table, so we've gone with what's most relevant in our context. (Maybe when Jim gets back to Southern Seminary, they can have the intramural premil discussion there!)I have submitted a response to that. Like this blog, that one is moderated, so it isn't up yet as I publish this post. But this is what I wrote:
Here's why that doesn't convince me.(BTW, to be clear: I am not advocating booing and hissing. If you go, don't boo or hiss. But I do think it would be unfair to criticize dispensationalism in absentia, since we won't be allowed to respond from the back of the bus.)
"Historic" premils love to take a stance approximating "Oh, no no no, look — don't lump me in with those nasty dispensationalists! I'm sophisticated, and have a very old and respectable position!"
Plus, when the Presby's studied dispensationalism in the 1940s to see if it accorded with the WCF, they tried to be very emphatic that they meant dispensational premillennialism, and not "historical" premillennialism. The former (they ruled) was incompatible; the latter was hunky-dory.
And now for an institution to come and say "Oh well, same/same...."
I don't think so. Are they the same? Then let's be even-handed about it. Tell the Presbys and all the pitchfork committees that if they want to come after dispensational premills, they're going to have to come through the "historical" premills first.
And be sure to tell sites like this and this that they're just the same/same — so they should either shut out EVERYONE, or revisit the back of the bus and let it speak for ITSELF.
And if this (to me) common-sense approach isn't followed, I'm sure the moderator will instruct the audience to boo and hiss if any of the participants says anything critical of dispensationalism.
Right?
Right.
I was converted on a Monday, given a Scofield Reference Bible the next day, and enrolled in the Scofield Bible Correspondence Course on the third day. I graduated from an
Arminian, Dispensational Bible School. In my first pastorate, I.C. Herendeen, the man who published A.W Pinks books and tracts, came into our congregation. Under God, Mr. Hereunder, patiently taught me the truth of sovereign grace.
At that time the only books teaching Calvinism were written by Presbyterians. Calvinistic Baptists were unheard of. I accepted Covenant Theology as a package deal and left Dispensationalism. I could not buy infant Baptism. About 30 years ago, I began to question the basic presupposition of Covenant Theology and this left me in “no man’s land.”
I have no trouble believing, 1) the “promise made to the fathers” are fulfilled in Christ; 2) believing the NT spiritualizes the kingdom promises; 3) and believing Christ is presently seated on the throne of David. I see no necessity of an earthly millennium but also see nothing stating there will not be one. In many ways, I agree with the A-Mil but not on his basic presupposition that the “Bible teaches there will be no earthly millennium. Seeing no necessity for one and saying Scripture teaches there will not be one is two different things. I am not looking for a millennium but there may be one. I guess if I had to chose a label, I would say I am an A-Mil with a very low level of assurance. Of course it would depend on what book I read last.
Having said all that, I still have several very real problems. One, some of the OT prophecies have a very literalistic ring. Passages like Habakkuk 2:14 are difficult to spiritualize. The only time in history such a promise remotely came close to fulfillment is Christmas and I think Habakkuk means more than that.
Two, Israel is there on the map as a nation, like it or not. Spurgeon, McCheyne and may others preached that Israel would be restored to the promised land. Many scoffed but there they are! No nation that was conquered and never regained its land or its king has every maintained its identity for more than 100 years. It was assimilated into the other culture. Israel was without a land or a king for over 2,500 years, was persecuted by nearly every nation, some of which tried to literally annihilate them off the face of the earth.
Israel today is like a little David surrounded by giant Goliath's. Every once in while one of those Goliaths mess with Israel and get their butts kicked. When that happens, I check my Scofield footnotes and Larkin’s charts one more time just to be sure!
I should add that when evolution hit full force and a lot of Reformed people were “re-thinking” some things, it was the Dispensationalist who were defending the inspiration of the Bible. The Scofield Bible moved it adherents to start hundreds of Bible conferences, Bible schools like Moody Bible Institute, Philadelphia School of the Bible, and many others including Dallas Theological Seminary. Those schools trained and sent 30,000 missionaries to countries all over the world and everyone of those godly young men and women had a Scofield Bible in their suit case.
As I said at the beginning, I am not a dispensationalist, but among my most Godly personal friends some are dispensationalists. Please do not make any snide remarks about them or question either their godliness or scholarship around me.
jgr



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