Independent thinkers will quickly recall the groundless media swarm over murderer Jared Loughner, and will wonder if this narrative isn't a bit too convenient. However, I have a simple thought to offer, which I believe I'll never be in any danger of having to withdraw or modify.
Let's say the perpetrator of this appalling act is a Christian. In fact, let's say he's a fundamental, orthodox, Calvinistic Christian of impeccable testimony (before this atrocity). Further, let's say he thinks the American Constitution is the embodiment of political wisdom. Let's say he's donated $55 billion to the Tea Party movement in America, and another $55 billion to Sarah Palin's PAC. And let's finally stipulate that he eats and drinks Madison, Jefferson, and Adams, and is appalled at Obama and the Democratic Party in America.
HSAT:
- There will be no large public celebratory demonstrations of support from fundamental, orthodox, Calvinistic Christians. None. Zero.
- There will be no large public celebratory demonstrations of support from GOP stalwarts, or any other sorts of American conservatives. None. Zero.
- There will be no large public celebratory demonstrations of support from Tea Party members. None. Zero.
- There will be no large public celebratory demonstrations of support from Sarah Palin or her supporters. None. Zero.
- There will be, instead, universal condemnation of any murderous, terroristic acts from all of the above.
In fact, let me be the first. As a card-carrying CalviDispieBaptoGelical who admires the Constitution, thinks generally well of Sarah Palin, thinks Obama is an appalling man-child wholly unequal to holding the office of American President, and recognizes that the Democratic Party sums up everything that's wrong about America, I unconditionally condemn the Oslo terrorist acts, assuming they're being reported accurately. (Sad that one has to add that qualifier, but one must.)
In this, I'll just be one of many.
That's the difference, and it's all-important. Even if this person holds all the opinions detailed above, his action was in spite of them, and not because of them.
Unlike other monsters and their genuinely monstrous worldviews.
UPDATE: as I anticipated, the story may not be so simple, and some questions need answering.
UPDATE: as I anticipated, the story may not be so simple, and some questions need answering.
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28 comments:
Well said, and predictably Frank Shaeffer is already all over this one.
Well said, and predictably Frank Shaeffer is already all over this one.
Oh, good heavens. Man cannot stop urinating on the grave of the father who is the only reason his name is even a name.
Don't know why my name came up as Matt. It's Les, FWIW. Fixed now.
My understanding, that the media is conveniently leaving out, is that he actually is part of a Nazi group. One or two articles stated that, but now I am not seeing it in the in further articles in the media. Perhaps Christian Fundamentalist fits their agenda better.
Matt/Les: we will adjust the historical record accordingly, and points will be reassigned.
(c:
"...and predictably Frank Shaeffer is already all over this one."
Speaking of an "appalling man-child...". 'nuff said.
Yes, Dan, well written, well done.
According to reports this morning, the guy was heavily into all sorts of non-Christian philosophy like Kant and was an on-line gamer of violent video games. Bibely believing fundamentalists usually don't run in those circles.
HSAT,
I happen to have some Norwegian friends. Norway does not have a heavy "fundamentalist" Christian population. Most folks are "traditional" Christians either Lutheran or Catholic and would be better aligned with our liberal version of those denominations in our country.
Additionally, those countries there in Scandinavia, like Sweden and Finland, do have a growing movement among the native folks of xenophobia due in part to the government's foolishly generous (read multi-cultural liberal) policies favoring foreigners (read Muslims).
One friend of mine whose parents are missionaries in Finland (nearby to Norway) tell of recent protests by the nationals against immigration policies of Muslims. The missionaries are warned not to leave their homes on the days these protests take place or they risk getting throttled by the protestors who also have it in for American foreigners as well.
So. A postmodern, anti-biblical liberal society that has enabled Muslim extremists in their midst are certainly going to work up xenophobic nationals who the media will describe as "fundamentalist, right-wing Christians."
It's another example of lazy, anti-American reporting.
I just heard someone say on the news that this is a perversion of Christianity "just like radical Islam is a perversion of true Islam."
Except true Islam is radical Islam.
Wow, I know a couple of people, including yourself were joking that the terrorists would be Christian, when in fact it has turned out that terrorist it seems is a CINO.
If he is convicted, the maximum sentence he can get in Norway is 21 years. He'll be out before he is sixty.
"Authorities say he posted on Christian fundamentalist websites and reportedly held right-wing, anti-Muslim views. He was also once a member of the youth wing of a rightist party."
How do authorities identify him as a Christian based on posting on "Christian fundamentalist?" websites? Fred's right. This is lazy reporting and wild speculation.
That Frankie Schaeffer hit piece is appalling! He can't find it in his heart to express one word of sympathy for the victims or a word of condemnation for the actual terrorist. Instead, he finds a way to blame Michele Bachman, his father, and the Tea Party...and of course, to plug his book. Shameful.
Frankie Schaeffer should give any Christian parent nightmares and cause us to spend more time on our knees in prayer for our children's salvation. Because if this can happen to a stalward like Francis Schaeffer...
I see a major difference between the response of conservative christians (as outlined above) and the response of liberal, non-christians. Interestingly, you left out the typical liberal response when a liberal wacko goes off (Loughner?). I guess it's one of those, "so obvious it didn't need to be said" things, huh?
Interestingly, you left out the typical liberal response when a liberal wacko goes off (Loughner?).
And the biggest one of all: Lee Harvey Oswald.
I am reading reports that his facebook page may had been faked or altered.
http://www.solidprinciples.com/blog/anders-behring-breivik-facebook-profile-a-fake/
and here
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2011/07/who-added-christian-and-conservative-to-norway-shooters-facebook-page-yesterday.html
(sorry about the mast-head)
Yeah, that MSM categorization of the terrorist didn't sit well with me. When I awoke in the wee hours this morning, I was still under the impression that al-Qaeda had something to do with it (didn't they take credit for it?), and I was feeling sad over Abraham's sin some millennia ago (conceiving Ishmael, I mean). Then I turned on the computer and read that this guy was a "right-winged Christian fundamentalist". Ouch.
Knowing that the Lord is sovereign, however, I can pray that many Norwegians will come to faith in Him, in spite of this terrorist's profile.
The NYT reports:
"In a Facebook page and a Twitter account set up under his name days before the rampage, suggesting a conscious effort to construct a public persona and leave a legacy for others, he cited philosophers like Machiavelli, Kant and John Stuart Mill."
Yep...just as we thought...Kant, Machiavelli, Mill....all giants of Christian fundamentalism.
Something tells me when all is said and done we're either going to find a Jared Loughner or a neo-Nazi. Certainly not a fundamentalist Christian. Not a true one anyway.
Certainly not a fundamentalist Christian. Not a true one anyway.
And there we find our way back to the point of the post.
Even if he professes to have believed every tenet held by those the MSM despises, he (A) demonstrably was not practicing those tenets in committing mass murder, and (B) will be universally denounced by those who actually do hold them.
Unlike certain other genuinely murder-inspiring ideologies.
Even if he professes to have believed every tenet held by those the MSM despises, he (A) demonstrably was not practicing those tenets in committing mass murder, and (B) will be universally denounced by those who actually do hold them.
True enough. But another difference is that he hasn't (yet) claimed that he did the killings in the name of God and/or because God commanded it.
In reading through some of the comments in the NYT story I linked, the self-loathing from those who initially thought it might have been committed by Islamists is almost amusing. They're so ashamed! How could they for even a moment have rushed to judgement? What could have led them to think for even an instant that it was Muslim jihadists when it was, of course, the Christian fundamentalist?
In the article itself, some egghead economist in London said he was "quite relieved" it was a homegrown terrorist because it was important that Mr. Breivik’s views “be openly rejected by everyone in Norway.”
Hmmm...which views would those be? Criticism of radical Islam? Anti-immigrant views? Christian views? Anti-homosexuality views? That statement (and the aftermath of this tragedy) will most certainly be used to try to craft a plethora of laws to silence Christians.
Rather than isolating this man and his views, they will attempt to attach him to anything and everything that will further someone's political agenda.
Side note: I just heard that police officers in Norway don't generally carry guns! If this had happened in Switzerland, where all adult males are issued guns as part of the citizen militia, this man would have never been able to shoot.
And if this had happened at the camp where my husband and sons hang out...well...let's just say he would have been out manned and out gunned.
@Paula: People thought it was Muslims because, in part, Al qaeda claimed responsibility for it.
Not to get all conspiracy theorist, but Pamela Geller from Atlas Shrugs has suspicions that something is not right about this guys's Facebook page.
Bleivik's background and description do not fit the type of a mass murderer. His blog bears reveals not a violent man, but a man who loves to talk.
He would be considered neither a conservative nor an evangelical Christian here. His actual posts clearly indicate a Leftist trying to infiltrate and manipulate Christians and the Right to Leftist dogma.
Following are comments from his own website by way of Google Translate:
2009-09-14 10:57:20
Caper,
I did not say that the EDL (English Defense League) in the present form, where we had wished it had been...
In all cases, we are not in a situation where we can pick and choose partners. We must therefore make sure to influence other cultural conservatives to come to our anti-Racist/pro-homosexual/pro-Israel line.
When they reach this line, one can take it to the next level.
The consolidation should continue, and people must not make a difference (rather than isolate).
...
I am a supporter of an indirect collective conversion of the Protestant church back to the Catholic. In the meantime, I vote for the most conservative candidates in church elections.
The only thing that can save the Protestant church is to go back to basics.
PZ Myers, who I have on good authority is not friendly to religious fundamentalists in the least, notes these items from a 1,500 page manifesto:
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2011/07/a_glimpse_into_the_deranged_mi.php
CNN referred to him as a "Christian extremist". Would that make the Columbine shooters "Atheist extremists"?
Again, we need to see what they mean by "Christian Websites" the Aryan Nation considers itself Christian just like Fred Phelps and David Khoresh.
Oh, and there are quite a few Christians who play video games Mr. Butler I would strongly hesitate before using that as a barometer. Stick with his theology.
What bothers me most is the illogical argument of it all. Christians don't murder people as it is against their beliefs (and it's not like we're talking about a tertiary doctrine here) so obviously he's not a Christian...but logic is not mainstream in the mainstream media.
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