Monday, February 23, 2009

Change? Yes, no, and yes-but....

UPDATE: I think most of you have seen the video. It auto-starts, which is annoying. A loyal reader supplies this link, where you can see it if you want.

That amounts to an awful lot of change.

But government spending more and more and more of our money on itself, punishing the productive, rewarding special interests, and encouraging yet more government dependence? No. No change at all.

But it is a change, in a way... for the worse.

I'm beginning to wonder if Obama is going to take us past the point of no return, where the most visionary leader, with Biblically conservative values, would be forced by honesty to say "There isn't much I can do except try to slow the hemorrhage."


bugblaster said...

At this moment it's no contest... You're the most socialist country in North America. Combine that with the pork entitlement mentality (perhaps the worst characteristic of your system), and it doesn't look like you'll be having much fun for a while.

Fred Butler said...

I like that part about spending a million dollars everyday since that time of Jesus and you still wouldn't spend the amount of money congress is spending. Wasn't there a Richard Pryor movie along this theme?

Carol Jean said...

A Cleveland radio station interviewedOhio Senator Sherrod Brown this morning about the so-called stimulus package. It starts at about 4:40 on the podcast. Some very enlightening spin.

He said the tax cuts for the wealthy and the war in Iraq are causing more than a billion dollars a day in deficit. The president is going to "sit down this week to talk about how we're going to get the budget in balance."

"We're obviously borrowing money for the stimulus package."

Here's how we're apparently going to pay for all that pork:

1. Winding down the war in Iraq
2. Not renewing the Bush tax cuts
3. Borrow money from savings bonds...people lending money to government - trying to get your money back with interest - that's the safest investment there is.

"The banking bail out did reward bad behavior, but there was NO CHOICE." [emphasis mine]

These people truly believe in the epic heroism of this bailout. I brings to mind a line from the Princess Bride, "Your intellect is truly dizzying!"

~Mark said...

When even CNBC and MSNBC are pointing out problems with this very Liberal president you know he's doing things that will have massive impact.

It's gonna take a long time to heal the socio-political and economic damage.

Daniel said...

I think the slogan "change" refers to pocket change - and, if this is regarded as pocket change, you are big trouble.

DJP said...

You're not wrong.

Jeff said...

I've moved from middle class to chattering class and didn't even know it. Nice.

Note to Senator Shumer, I'm an American people and I care very much.

The arrogance of the leadership of this country never ceases to amaze. The gullibility of the masses is even more remarkable.

Aaron said...

The point of no return has already passed. A minority of the country now pays income taxes.

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been about 200 years. These nations have progressed through this sequence: '>From bondage to spiritual faith; From spiritual faith to great courage; From courage to liberty; From liberty to abundance; From abundance to selfishness; From selfishness to apathy; From apathy to dependence; From dependence back into bondage." - Alexander Tytler

I think Winston Churchill said: The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter. Which of course, was why we were formed as a republic...but you get the picture.

Aaron said...

Carol Jean:

The spin on this stimulus bill is incredible. Some of the local talk shows here have done interviews where they tell the guest that FDR actually made the recession worse. So the lib guest will say, we'll spending on the war got us out of it. And yet in our case, spending on the Iraq war is hurting the economy. Obviously a product of a good public education (yes, it's meant to be an oxymoron).

trogdor said...

"When even CNBC and MSNBC are pointing out problems with this very Liberal president you know he's doing things that will have massive impact."

Yeah, it's nice of them to point it out now that he's doing exactly what he threatened to do during the entire campaign. That's one of the most aggravating things about this, how The Obama supporters are just shocked an appalled that he's governing like he dared us he would.

But hey, at least other nations will really like the direction we're heading. That's all that matters, right?

Stefan said...

Bugblaster: lol.

And in other news, the world turned upside down 180 degrees on its axis last night.

Stefan said...


I thought that was a remarkably prescient passage from this gentleman, Alexander Tytler—an 18th-century Scottish historian—whom I'd never heard of earlier.

I wanted to find out more about this gentleman, but it turns out that the whole quote can be broken down into two sections which arose independently of each other, and neither earlier than the mid 20th century. (See here or at Snopes.)

Not that this makes it an any less on-the-money (sorry) observation.

Aaron said...


Truthfully, I had heard the quote on the radio once and had to look it up for my post here. I actually saw various forms of the quote including something very similar from Karl Marx. I just chose one and gave credit lest somebody think I came up with the wonderful quote myself.

Rachael Starke said...

"The point of no return has already passed. A minority of the country now pays income taxes."

There's a simple answer to this.

No representation without taxation.

You want to vote? Pay up.

Stan McCullars said...

I posted a few ideas today in a post titled Financial Bailout, Stimulus Package and Job Creation. The alternatives I propose show the insanity of it all.

LeeC said...

*Looks up from fiddling*
What's that I hear? Oh, it's just the "chattering class"....
*Goes back to fiddling*

Stefan said...

Dan, I was going to put this on your TP thread when you mentioned how eschatology is off-limits there (with good reason), then I thought better of it. So I'll spam^H^H^H^H post it to your blog instead. It needs refinement, but here goes:

Amill = A sawmill.
Postmill = A sawmill that makes posts.
Premill = Raw lumber.
Pretrim premill = raw lumber before the branches are cut off.
Posttrim premill = raw lumber after the branches are cut off.
Pretreeism = A sawmill before it's received any lumber.

Stefan said...

These are not supposed to reveal any deep insights (at least not intentionally)...just playing with the words.

Aaron said...

Rachel, I'm with you all the way on that one.

trogdor said...

So are you thinking it should be a direct poll tax, or that voting should be just be limited to people above a certain income level?

Aaron said...

I think she's just saying that everyone who votes should pay some tax. If we pay income tax, everyone should pay the same percentage, etc.

Rachael Starke said...

What Aaron said.

I believe it was Jefferson who held to the idea that only landownders should be permitted to vote because they are invested in their country's success with their money and work. While I don't go that far, I think that this idea that a large portion of our society can receive service after service at absolutely no cost to them is a direct violation of 2 Thessalonians 3.

Call it a flat tax, straight income tax, whatever. Only shareholders in a company get to vote on a company's hiring decisions. Why should voting in our country's hiring decisions be any different?

EGC said...

Well said, Rachael.

For a great treatment of this concept, may I point you to
Robert Heinlein’s classic science fiction novel Starship Troopers? (NOT the really lame movie of the same name!!) I
do not agree with his religion, but his politics were dead on, IMHO. :-)

Gilbert said...

The Dow Jones Industrial Average today closed a bit above 7,100, not seen since 1987. An analyst who spoke with the Associated Press said that if fears are not soon calmed down by our current administration, the market could turn "violently downward" as it tries to figure out what the "worst case scenario" is. said,

"The arrogance of the leadership of this country never ceases to amaze. The gullibility of the masses is even more remarkable."

In my 40 years of hanging on for dear life on this spinning orb, I can now say not only am I not surprised by the former, I'm even less by the latter. When you abandon God, all aspects of a society's life fails. Thousands of years of human history, and ultimately, the Bible proves it.

When I had to---for two weeks of my life---go into debt to pay bills via a credit card, I didn't think: ya know, I really need to spend a lot more so my situation can improve!

No one is entitled to ANYTHING. And as soon as we figure out God is #1 on that list...we're like the old Wile E. Coyote and Road Runner cartoon, when the dust clears, the coyote is off a cliff momentarily suspended in mid-air, the Road Runner is smiling at us, and the coyote pulls out a sign that says "In heaven's name, what AM I doing"? just before he falls to the canyon below with the gratituitous smack.

The dust is clearing. And we're just beginning to see that it's a long way down.

Dan, can you post something uplifting to negate this one? This is too much of a downer.

Aaron said...


I'm with you 100%. I don't really care about what form of tax it is, so long as it is applied equally. And all types of welfare should be altogether banned.

One Salient Oversight said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
DJP said...

OSO asked me to tell you that he wonders how much more "stimulus" this economy can stand. He marvels that Ronald Reagan understood so clearly what Obama clearly doesn't: that governmental oppression and theft does not bring liberty, but rather tyranny and slavery.

OSO wishes Bush had been more "conservative" and less "compassionate" — given that "compassion" too often is a politician's code-word for bloated government.

CR said...

Brit Hume had a good commentary on President Obama's plans. He reminded us that in times when we had surplus or reduced deficits, it was in times of economic booms.

In the 90's you had the technology boom followed by the bubble. But before the bubble we had budget surplus. Watch for liberals to say that it was the increases in taxes that gave us budget surplus.

Between 2004 and 2006 we had reduced deficits even with the massive defensive spending in the war on terror in Iraq and Afghanistan. You had the housing boom (followed by the housing bubble). In both times, deficits were reduced because tax revenues increased. Why did tax revenues increase? Because Americans prospered.

I really don't see another economic boom for some time. We've already had a technology boom and I just don't see another in the near future. President Obama's plan will fail (among other reasons) because you increase revenues with raising taxes and raising spending.

Even under the Bush years when we had reduced deficits when he cut taxes (good idea) and spending was increased (some good like defense and Veterans Affairs, some bad like Medicare) that did not spur economic prosperity. Government cannot create economic prosperity. It can help (if you lower taxes and cut some spending) but even if you lower taxes and cut spending, you still need the marketplace to increase tax revenues because it's only when Americans prosper do you increase tax revenues and reduce deficits and create budget surplus.

I really can't foresee an economic boom in the near future. Get ready for some real hard times and it's sad that we are depending on the Chinese communists to finance our debt.

CR said...

I said: "President Obama's plan will fail (among other reasons) because you increase revenues with raising taxes and raising spending.

I meant to finish that comment with saying you can't increase tax revenues (the only real way to reduce deficits or create budget surplus) with raising taxes (and certainly not increase spending). You do it with economic booms.

Truth Unites... and Divides said...

I don't believe I have cognitive dissonance when I say that God is Sovereign and Good.. and that America (and I as an American citizen living in California) are screwed.

I don't see those two ideas as being mutually contradictory. Or are they?

Stefan said...

TUAD: I think Jeremiah was preaching something similar when the Babylonians were knocking on the city gate.

Aaron said...


Read Daniel? He and his three friends were extremely faithful to God and yet they were still taken to Babylon. Granted, God made them prosper after they got there, but its not as if they didn't suffer for their country's sinfulness. Christians in Rome were mercilessly tortured and executed. Its depressing to see the liberals implode this country, but (1) we haven't really suffered (yet) and (2) even if we do, it doesn't in any way contradict the fact of God's goodness.

I was born and raised in CA. I lived there for most of my life (all but three years). I can't imagine a place on earth that exhibits God's beauty more so than there (and I've been to 40 of the 50 states and many different countries). Ironic that CA would be leading the charge in athiestic thought and policies considering the ample evidence of God's creation right there. Of course, after reading Romans, we shouldn't be too surprised.

One Salient Oversight said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
DJP said...

Banned stalkertroll OSO wanted me to tell you that he still can't figure out how the farmer means to get more gold eggs by strangling the goose. It just doesn't make sense.

Aaron said...

I confess that I now look forward to seeing "This post has been removed by a blog administrator" because I know Dan is going to post something funny shortly thereafter.

RT said...

Yes he's enjoying it entirely too much - but then, so am I.

I heard snippets this morning of last night's speech which only confirms more and more just how screwed (to quote TUAD) we really are. Thankfully I have property in a stringently Catholic country in Central America to which I plan to flee the moment I am eligible to retire. Yes I know I am a coward - no need pointing it out - but I intend to enjoy my golden years watching, from afar, this poor country sink into socialism and degredation. I feel no need to experience it first hand.

DJP said...

Sorry, Libbie; I don't see a way to disable that. You can click "Pause."

I'll mull it over. I could change it to a link, now that most have seen it. Problem is, I can't see vids myself while at work.

Libbie said...

You're a star, Dan. I was racing to scroll down and click pause everytime I loaded the page.

It was a good video, though - helpful for me to get a good metaphor for how much it all is, I'm not so good with bare numbers.

Stan McCullars said...

Try autostart="false"

CR said...

You'll probably cover this on your Hither and Tither but...

President Obama gave his speech on his budget plan. It has a projected deficit for 2009 of $1.75 trillion or 12.3% of GDP.
A percentage that has not been seen since 1942. Boy, I hope the Communist Chinese are in a giving mood to buy our T-bonds so we can finance all this socialism.

This is what the Obama voters voted for (oh and yeah, government sponsored baby killing).

Thanks for nothing.