Friday, August 07, 2009

Hither and thither 8/7/09

Nice assortment of the visual and the think-ual today:
  • If you regard Obama's government takeover of health care with anything but horror and revulsion, you (A) haven't been paying attention, (B) don't "get" the founding genius and drive behind American greatness, and/or (C) haven't applied the Biblical doctrine of depravity to politics.
  • We recently whacked on Mike Adams for some irresponsible comments about depression. But here he does what our representatives and president have almost surely not done: reads "the first 500 pages" of the health care bill — and poses some questions.
  • And now a periodic apology to the world for our pathetic Senatrix, Barbara Boxer. The poor woman made the mistake of emailing me, inviting me to get involved in the health care debate. I was happy to oblige her. My emailed response began thus: "Thanks for asking my opinion. Every time you open your mouth in public, you embarrass me as a Californian, Ma'am. You make such a fool of yourself, yet never apologize, never re-think, never change."
  • And as if I needed illustrative proof, Ms. Boxer kindly has provided this. Yep: EVERY. TIME. (See here for context and expansion.)
  • And now, since we're about to mention both Bush and Obama, here's an eloquently wordless study in contrasts, served up in an email forwarded to me by Fred Butler.
  • Back to health care. It's another one of those Funny Things. Liberals have such a reputation as being all for free speech. Turns out that's only if the speech is obscenity, pornography, treason or blasphemy. If it's dissent against our wannabe totalitarian overlords? Not so much. Hence the White House is asking for citizens to inform on citizens who won't drink the Hopey Changey. I did not make that up. On the White House's own page, we read, "If you get an email or see something on the web about health insurance reform that seems fishy, send it to"
  • Interesting, eh? When President Bush tried to solicit information to prevent criminal acts of terrorist violence, liberals were all aflutter. But when Obama wants citizens to inform on law-abiding citizens who exercise their First Amendment rights? Well, what do you think?
  • In response, many suggest we all turn ourselves in, flooding the White House with confessions of our own dissent.
  • Reader Angie points us to a physician's view of the government intrusion and our consequent loss of freedom under the health care takeover plan being considered. (Warning: gratuitous cat animation with rude gesture at end, sorry.)
  • Okay, now I've stumbled on a site that is painfully funny. It will make you feel good as gold about anything — a-n-y-t-h-i-n-g — that you have ever done by way of home repair or flashes of domestic ingenuity. The site-name is There, I Fixed It. The captions are hysterical. Here are just a few, without captions (click to enlarge):
  • Well, it's done. A racialist President has gotten a racialist judge elevated to a lifetime appointment to the highest court in the land. Reader Tim Bertolet points us to some pointed parody by Bill Whittle that well frames who just did what with what sort of person.
  • The train of the lovely wedding dress which my DAOD adorned was very long. Long enough that it was a factor in picking a church; long enough that I had very firmly in my mind that I needed to step carefully when resuming my seat. But it wasn't this long.
  • Ice cream. Yummy-yum, eh? Maybe not always.
  • Legos. And they say they're "just toys"!

  • And, finally, these:


CR said...

Careful, Dan. Someone (especially some that are banned) may report you to our Dear Leader Barack Obama for your criticism of our Dear Leader Barack Obama's health care reform.

Chris H said...

Reading these things, I am so glad I don't live in a place where the gov't has its hands in healthcare, muddying everything up with inefficiency and insufficiency, and in a place where conservative - even evangelical! - voices can still be heard without cries of "hatemonger," and the rest.

Oh wait... I live in Canada...

Neil Cameron (One Salient Oversight) said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Colloquist said...

I missed your post about Mike Adams' article on its original day; probably a good thing. I suffered serious postpartum depression in 1998-99 and there were very few people around me who didn't ascribe to the "how could you not be happy with this beautiful baby?" line of thought. To mention waking in a bad mood or sadness in the same breath as depression shows a serious dearth of knowledge on the subject.

I turned myself in to the Snitch Brigade via email on the first day the news broke. I told my kids, if dark-suited men in black sedans show up at the door, tell them Mommy just hopped in the shower and they should come back later.

Thanks for the work you put into H&T, Dan. I look forward to Friday mornings!

Fred Butler said...

Thanks for the love, Dan.

By the way, it looks like your stalker stopped by to say how much he loves you, and hopes Americans will embrace the Soylent Green health care system.

By the way, I took the liberty to forward his email to the White House.

DJP said...

Obsessive banned stalkertroll OSO just thoughtfully made a spectacle of himself yet again, just to illustrate a point which should be instructive to us all.

He wants us to know what a nightmare government-run health care would be.

Consider OSO himself. He has no right to post on this blog. He made himself so unwelcome that he was banned. Nobody here wants him here, nobody is interested in what he has to say.

Every time he comments, he is like a cyber-rapist, selfishly and self-righteously forcing himself on those who do not welcome him. It is an ugly and disgraceful thing, yet he has done it over and over again.

Why does he do it?

Just because he wants to, and just because he can.

I delete every inane comment right away, and replace it with something sane. OSO's powers to force himself on his victims fail at this point.

Ah, but imagine a government full of people like him.

Imagine an army of grim, self-righteous, humorless OSOs, armed with the powers of the legislature and the courts and the military.

Imagine them barging into your life, telling you how to live and how long to live. Demanding to know every detail of your diet and behavior. Demanding more and more of your freedoms, your liberty, your money.

Imagine them able to force you to comply, as OSO is frustrated not to be able to do. Laws, guns, and courts. And jails.

In his repeated brute-force assertions of selfish power, OSO is perfectly illustrating what we'd be subjected to, if government took over this area of our lives.

Is that something any of you wants?

candy said...

Well, the violence is beginning. Obama has sent union thugs to healthcare townhall meetings and one of them attacked a guy in Florida. They apparently are arriving in buses and regular folks are being banned from the meetings while the doors are opened for the union folks.
I somehow get the idea that Obama wants things to escalate.

You have Barbara Boxer and we have Harry Reid.

Weird question for Christians. What do you think of the rise in gun sales and whether people should get one for protection? It seems to come up a lot on blogs...more and more all the time.

Paula said...

Do you think it would bog down that White House e-mail address if bazillions of people sent e-mails with the 1000+ page ObamaCare bill pasted into them? How about if the bill were turned into a high resolution image or something miserable to open?

Paula said...

Or maybe we could get OSO's e-mail address : )

SolaMommy said...

I would totally try sweet corn ice cream! I actually had garlic ice cream last October at a local wouldn't have been half as gross if they had just used garlic juice instead of minced garlic.

DJP said...

My family recoils, but I would try garlic ice cream.

I draw the line at mayonnaise ice cream, however — much as I love both ingredients, taken separately.

CR said...

Well, folks, 3 years and 5 months left for this administration. It's horrible but it looks like we have to get use to seeing stuff like this.

DJP said...

At minimum.

(Just wanted to make sure we bottomed-out quickly.)

Aaron said...

or (d) don't care because you're a lazy bottom feeder that lives off the fruit of other's hard work.

Aaron said...


I'm not sure what to think of the gun situation. Glen Beck thinks there will eventually be mass lawlessness. Having lived during the LA Riots (not to mention the riots when the Lakers won the championship) and now Hurricane Ike, I can tell you that it doesn't take much for that to occur. I think this will be true if we can't go down and get food off the shelf at the local grocery store whenever we please. Hurricane Ike gave me a little snippet of that.

Of course, we don't really know how much longer ordinary folk will be allowed to have guns, much less use them. And it's likely that many of us will lose our jobs and/or be faced with civil and criminal penalties for being believers. This could occur before we see civil unrest or extreme crime.

Rachael Starke said...

If after a year or more of engaged participation in your blog, I decide I'm going to find out when my congressperson's (Her Looniness Zoe Lofgren) next townhall meeting is scheduled, and attend it and maybe ask a respectful question or five,

doesn't that make you a (blog) community organizer??

If so, doesn't that make you an excellent candidate for President in 2012??

Paula said...

As I sit here watching the president on TV, lying to the American public (we brought down unemployment with a stimulus bill that includes NO pork or earmarks)(unlike the previous administration, bunch of losers that they were)(can't make a speech without blame Bush and the Republicans).....

I opened up the massive Obamacare bill to take a peek and was immediately confronted with this:

H.R. 3200

To provide affordable, quality health care for all Americans and reduce the growth in health care spending, AND FOR OTHER PURPOSES.
[emphasis mine]

4 words that every American needs to know and weigh carefully.

Paula said...

@Rachael, Dan and Candy: OSO has flagged this blog as "fishy" and you should all expect visits from the government brute squad. I'd advise logging in to the cash-for-klunkers website immediately to turn yourselves in : )

DJP said...

If so, doesn't that make you an excellent candidate for President in 2012??

Rachael, I would say that I am ever bit as qualified as — yea, more qualified than — he who now floats the coat.

But that ain't sayin' much!

DJP said...

From the fact that I receive press releases directly from the WH, Paula, I think someone working for someone working for someone working for THE One knows about the blog.

Absurd as that seems.

CR said...


Your time is probably better spent reading your Bible, praying or going out with your family to a nice outing. I suggest finding a nice Portuguese restaurant and eating out.

Plus, word is out union thugs have roughed up some people who dare criticize our Dear Leader Barack Obama at these townhall meetings.

You could probably accomplish the same (which is nothing) by just writing to your Congresswoman.

{Just in case some don't get the political pun, North Korean dictator Kim Jong Il's official title is Dear Leader Kim Jong Il}

DJP said...

For some reason, the Beauty and the Beast picture cracks me up every time.

Herding Grasshoppers said...

I don't know, Dan.

As the daughter of an electrician, I think the one in the pool really takes the cake.

DJP said...


But that one doesn't make me laugh. It makes me shudder.

Herding Grasshoppers said...


GrammaMack said...

As a Canadian, I am personally thankful for free health care. Very thankful. That's not a remark on your president's proposal (which may or may not bear any resemblance to our system), just a thanksgiving on my part.

Aaron said...

free? As in it just boils up from the ground free? Or does somebody somewhere actually pay for it?

And when was the last time you had an MRI? I had two last year. Very, very thankful I didn't live in Canada.

The Squirrel said...

It's the cat in the sink that gets to me!


("To remove face" - hehehehehe)

lee n. field said...

>Liberal-fascists and free speech

Remind me to tell you about my minor run-in with some Canadian "free" speech monitors.

lee n. field said...

"Weird question for Christians. What do you think of the rise in gun sales and whether people should get one for protection?"

If you're a sane person, I have no problem. It's another tool.

If you've waited until now, you're quite late to the game. I haven't bought any ammunition in months, because there's almost none to be had, eight months into the 0ne's reign.

"Well, folks, 3 years and 5 months left for this administration." Let them help you keep track.

CR said...


Here's the thing: Canada doesn't have the best health care in the world. The United States actually has the best and par excellence health care in the world. There is no healthcare problem in the United States.

The challenge in the United States is healthcare insurance. There is no healthcare problem in the US. There are about 47 million people in the US that are uninsured. Some are illegal aliens (about 12 mil). Others are poor and don't know they can qualify for state and federal aid that already exists (about 14 mil to 15 mil). And lastly, others simply don't want or care to have insurance (about 16 mil). Some make good money. Others are young people.

I personally know of people that complain about health care in this country, but they have a nice SUV, plasma TV, a home, iPhone. Well, excuse me, but why should we ruin the best healthcare in this world so one can have their toys and we pay for their healthcare?!

For people that are here legally, there is help. ER by law have to give emergency care. For those that are limbo we can probably work something out to give them catastrophic insurance that wouldn't bring the damage that Obamacare would to our great healthcare.

Anonymous said...

What do you think of the rise in gun sales and whether people should get one for protection?

I think it's great! I would recommend everyone get a couple, maybe a shotgun (Mossberg 500 or Remington 870) and a Glock.

As Lee said about ammunition: there's almost none to be had.

Call your local suppliers frequently. On a tip (no joke) I called Wal-Mart early one morning two weeks ago and learned they had just received some 9 mm ammo. I rushed to the store and bought six boxes (my Wal-Mart's per day limit due to shortage) of 100 rounds. My goal is to have a minimum of 10,000 rounds of 9mm and maybe a few hundred rounds of 12 gauge buck shot and slugs. That should be enough to hold off the zombies for a while.

There are a few online stores that have ammo from time to time. I've seen a couple that you can purchase now but there is a wait of several months to actually receive it.

Not that I've looked into any of this.

I guess you, and the Obama administration, could say that I feel so betrayed by government and am bitter and (I) cling to guns or religion.

GrammaMack said...

Hi, Sir Aaron,

Woah, my comment seemed to rub you the wrong way. It was not meant to offend. I do sincerely thank God that when a member of my family is sick, we are able to get the care needed regardless of how much money is (or most usually isn't) in the bank. That includes MRIs. When our youngest son as a little boy needed surgery and a year of follow-up at Sick Kids Hospital, we couldn't have afforded it if we had had to pay for it. When we almost lost a grandson at birth two years ago and he needed extra care, he got what he needed (and is thriving, thank the Lord). And so on and so forth...

It wasn't until we moved to Puerto Rico (to work in a mission school for deaf kids) that we realized how fortunate we were in Canada to have good health care and the help we needed whenever we needed it. I have thanked God for it ever since we moved back home.

My dear American daughter-in-law broke her leg skiing in January of 2005--both bones and all around the ankle. It was a long recovery. Her parents had to fight with the insurance company to get the therapy she needed. Two years later she was still being threatened by the hospital for unpaid bills that her insurance was supposed to pay. I've also seen fundraising efforts on-line for U.S. parents with sick children who have huge bills continually mounting up. I can't imagine being under that kind of pressure in addition to having a critically ill wee one.

I wouldn't have commented here except for an earlier disparaging comment about Canada. I've since looked at some of the links from here and see that your president's proposed plan has lots of worrisome features to it. But we've never had a problem here in Canada with getting the health care we need, including MRIs, and for that I am (unashamedly) very thankful.

GrammaMack said...

CR, thanks for the explanation. I really was just commenting because of the earlier anti-Canada comment. But from what I know of your health care and how hard it can be to deal with insurance companies even when you are insured, I still think we are blessed in Canada. But I also understand your concerns with Obamacare and all of its ugly controls. I'm not saying anything positive about that at all.

Paula said...

Back to health care. It's another one of those Funny Things. Liberals have such a reputation as being all for free speech. Turns out that's only if the speech is obscenity, pornography, treason or blasphemy. If it's dissent against our wannabe totalitarian overlords? Not so much.

I was just watching a clip of one of the town hall meetings that was a bit...let's say....spirited. The protesters were chanting, "Hear our voice! Hear our voice!"

It made me wonder about how the same scenario would be spun by both the MSM and the White House (OTOH, that's redundant, isn't it?) if these meetings were being attended by mostly black Americans or gay Americans or Muslim Americans who were upset by perceived abuses and misconduct by their elected officials.

Would, let's say, Sen McCain be politically lynched if he were to comment on their clothing, suggesting that they must be political operatives since they're so well-dressed?

What would be the reaction if the RNC ran an ad showing black/gay/Muslim/LPA(Little-People American) protesters chanting, "Hear our voice!" and then accused them of "organizing angry mobs"?

What would be the reaction of the Community Organizer in Chief? Would he and his party denounce them with equal vigor, enthusiasm and glee?

CR said...

Anyone wanting to understand the horrors of Canadian (or any other universal health care) system can read this or this.

Look folks, elections have consequences. I could be wrong and I hope I'm wrong, but universal health care I think is coming. The democrats have 60 votes. Plus you have two remaining RINOs from Maine. I don't think there is anything to stop them.

And GrammaMack - there is no difference between Obamacare and Canadian healthcare. The President and democrats want a single payer system. They're on record on that. They are lying to us by saying we can keep our private insurance. We have the President on video, we have Barney Frank on video. They want, in the end, a single payer universal health care system. Which is "free" medical care, which leads to endless demand and therefore rationing. Canadians are not "blessed."

The "disparaging" comment came from one of your Canadian brothers, ChrisH who apparently knows how bad it is there.

Aaron said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Aaron said...

GrammaMack, I am thankful that the good Lord graciously took care of your family's medical needs. And let me say that my remarks are in now way meant to convey personal animus. However, it greatly annoys me to see people talk about their healthcare as being "free." It's not free. The physicians, nurses, technicians, etc. all get paid. The buildings in which you or your family was treated cost money. Somebody pays for all of that. If it's not you, then it's somebody else. And I seriously doubt that the somebody else would agree with your characterization of it being "free."

Also, there are many stories of problems in Canada. 20/20 just aired a story about places in Canada that hold lotteries for an MRI. As a recent illustration of medical care in Canada, it is suspected that one of the reasons Liam Neeson's wife died, is because Canada didn't have the appropriate treatment and testing facilities which is why she was ultimately transferred to the U.S. just before she died. I could talk about canada's cancer treatment facilities and survival rates, but I think I've made my point already.

Now about your daughter, I truly hope she is able to pay he bills. I truly do not like to see people saddled with debt. But this raises a couple questions. Who should be paying if she doesn't and why wasn't she prepared for this event?

As for the stories of people who have to raise funds for their healthcare, IMHO, that is the way it should be. When one is either irresponsible in obtaining appropriate health care for himself or his family ahead of time or for some legitimate reason could not obtain coverage, then charity should be requested rather than forced. Not only does it provide opportunity for individuals to be blessed by providing for others based upon the graciousness of God, but it also provides accountability by those people who are providing the funds.

One of my major beefs with medical insurance and the health industry in general is that we expect to get more from the system than we pay in. IMHO, all medical coverage should be catastrophic in nature and people should be required to pay for their own expenses up to some catastrophic limit. After all, that's how most other insurance works.

Solameanie said...

Two comments, Dan. First, you should try Mayonnaise Cake. It's excellent. The mayo takes the place of the eggs, and the taste is that of a very, very rich chocolate cake with white icing.

Next, I am a bit concerned about your reference to Barbara Boxer, mostly because of the images it conjures up. The term "senatrix" makes me think of Catholicism, and it's idea of Mary being co-redemptrix and mediatrix." Another image that comes to mind is the Barbarella image of "dominatrix." Yet another is the image of the cereal bunny that says "Trix is for for kids."

I would go on with this, but my feeble, aging mind is beginning to play trix on me, and I am afraid of what I might write next.

GrammaMack said...

CR, it's kind of funny that you as an American can say that I as a Canadian am not blessed. From my Canadian experiences in Canada and the U.S., I find much to thank God for in regards to our health care. The horror stories you read about are exceptions. Are you telling me that I should not thank God for something that I feel convicted to thank Him for? Alrighty then...

Sir Aaron, the "somebody else" you speak of doesn't exist. Yes, it's everyone's tax dollars together, but it's not like an individual is being forced to pay directly for my personal health care. Think of it like anything else your government provides for everyone through taxes and deductions (whatever that might be). The system works--not perfectly, but it works.

And if you reread my comment you'll see that my daughter-in-law (not daughter) had insurance, but still her parents (long-time missionaries who had moved back to the U.S. and were/are pastoring a church) had to fight to get the insurance company to agree to the physiotherapy needed. The following year, she married my son. The year after that, he (as her husband who takes care of such things for her) was still trying to get her insurance to pay the hospital for charges they had agreed to pay.

As it happens, my son and his wife and their son just arrived at noon today from West Virginia for their annual visit, and you provided a topic of discussion. Among other things, my son told me about one of his employees whose daughter needed life-saving surgery, and guess what--her insurance is refusing to pay. That doesn't happen here. And again, any horror stories you read about are exceptions, including Liam Neeson's wife.

We certainly do have "appropriate treatment and testing facilities," but as I recall she refused medical attention until it was too late and then was taken to a facility that didn't have the specialists who might have been able to help, although even that was doubtful. It's not that Canada doesn't have them; they just weren't at that hospital. Mistakes do happen, sadly. And I thought they took her back to the U.S. so her family could all be with her when they took her off life support.

Anyway, that's all hearsay. I do know firsthand that in my extended Canadian family there are people suffering from cancer, heart problems, diabetes, and on and on...and they all get the care they need when they need it. One of my sisters is an RN in a cardiac intensive care unit, and I know her patients get the best of care. So in effect, you can tell me from down there that our sky up here is black, but I'm standing here actually looking at it, and it is blue and sunny. It may have some clouds here and there, but it sure ain't black! And for that I thank God, whether you grant me permission to do so or not.

At any rate, I have a son and daughter-in-law and wee grandson to enjoy, so over and out! God bless you all.

Fred Butler said...

Australia has similar health care as Canada. My Australian friend often tells me how great his health care is. But what I remind him is that Australia has a population around 20 million or so. Canada has about 33 million. America, on the other hand has over 300 million. There simply isn't any comparison. Health care as they have it in Canada would be disastrous here in the United States.

Solameanie said...

All I can say, if Canadian, British and Australian health care is so great, I have to wonder why so many Canadians, Brits and Aussies are going on American television to warn us against it.

Chris H said...

Just to be clear: I love my country (Canada) and would live nowhere else in the world, given my preference. I hope my earlier comment was not construed as "anti-Canada" because I certainly am not.

I AM, however, no great fan of our healthcare system, nor of the blindly liberal position that people here seem to believe in the default position. That's my whole point.

@Fred: One of my friends (an Aussie) was telling me that their healthcare system is what we would call two-tier. Some people have private insurance and get to jump certain queues, or have a private room, etc. However, healthcare itself is funded by the state. Me, I like the idea. Let some people pay for things like private clinics - gets the waiting time down for those poor shlubs like me who cannot afford to do so.

GrammaMack said...

Thank you, Fred. That's a great point about the difference in populations. I just want to reiterate that I was not saying that our system would work for the U.S. Someone here made a negative remark about Canada's health care (and he is certainly entitled to his opinion), and since I personally am thankful to God for it, I wanted to say so. I didn't say that it's perfect or couldn't be better or doesn't have flaws or people don't ever fall through the cracks, just that I am personally thankful for what it is.

As for the people who complain about it on American television, Solameanie, maybe they want their 15 minutes of fame. Maybe they are chronic complainers. Maybe they really were hurt by our system. Who knows? But I do know that they don't speak for all of us and certainly not for me. I am one Canadian who has thanked God many times in the past for our health care and continues to do so. Okay?

Aaron said...

"Sir Aaron, the "somebody else" you speak of doesn't exist"

Obviously it doesn't occur on an individual basis, i.e. an individual is given a bill for your medical care. But people pay for it by contributing to a pool. Which works fine until the total amount of resources needed exceeds the amount being put into the pool. At that point you have to(a) restrict services (i.e. rationing) (b) raise the amount of money some or all have to put into the pool (by raising taxes) or (c) a combination of both.

CR said...

What I am saying GrammaMack is that Canadians are not "blessed" for the healthcare system they have. There's a saying here. "It's nothing to write home about." Your universal healthcare system (any universal healthcare system - I don't mean just to pick on Canada) doesn't even compare to the United States.

The Fraser Institute, a Canadian think tank has documented the wait times for your health care system. Your healthcare system is both failing and is unsustainable. That much is true and we don't want that here in the US.

Colloquist said...

I'm no tax scholar, but I do know this: in the U.S., our progressive tax system shifts increasingly heavy burdens upwards. The top 1% of income earners paid 40% of the income taxes; the bottom 50% paid 2%! This is insanity - the top 1% is the "someone else" paying for the benefits provided to HALF of our country, and our Congress, who loathes personal wealth unless it is their own, surely will structure Obamacare the same. They are trying to convince us that we have to overhaul the entire system to cover the 10% who are uninsured, and that means the despised rich will be paying for everyone else.

DJP said...

Yes, and it gets even more insane than that.

That 1% is (are?) the ones who create the jobs and businesses that support much the __%. (Ever get employment from a homeless guy?) They are the goose that lays the golden egg, to a large degree.

The Obamian response is to punish and penalize and carve more and more pieces off that goose, then lament about rising unemployment, and "solve" the problem (that they created) by more and more government "help," which invariably means more and more government control.

Which is the ultimate goal.

DJP said...

Rachael - dig where your comment on Zoe L got linked.

Anonymous said...

I'll jump onto the bandwagon and add my 2 cents on the Canadian system.

I recieved a new kidney from my sister in March. No waiting (except for tests, but no unecessary waiting, my health was never in jeopardy) no problems.
My sister in Wisconsin was unable to even consider donating because they make very little money and her insurance company would have cancelled on them due to the expense of the testing required.

Anecdotal I'll admit. But I have other stories as well.

No health care system is perfect and if I were to be put into a situation where I had a choice and then had that choice taken away, I'd be hoppin' mad too. But I grew up in this system and slowly options are becoming available up here.

Sure there are problems, but people die in hallways in the U.S. as well.

I think the difficulty in the U.S. is twofold. The population difference makes our system unworkable for you and you would loose a freedom, an I agree, that's bad.

But buying guns? (And I'm no gun-hater) Seems to me that a Christian's option in mor restricted than that. Are we not called to die when Christianity becomes public enemy number one?
I understand the sentiment, but I'm not sure it's a Christian one (much as I respect Stan)

CR said...

You also don't have the large senior citizen population that the US has, Daryl.

The reason why you see a lot of people angry in some of these meetings, especially, senior citizens is because of the democrats plan to pay for universal care, in part, by cutting Medicare by $500 billion. Yes, they plan on raising taxes on the "rich" and taxing health care benefits but they also plan on the "cost savings" of Medicare by huge cuts.

And yes, your experience is anecdotal. The problems of Canadian Healthcare is well-documented.

The US doesn't have a healthcare problem like the Canada. We do have challenges with insurance, but Canadian universal healthcare has ruined Canadian healthcare. Universal healthcare will ruin the US starting with our senior citizens.

Aaron said...

The only places where you have people dying in the hallways of hospitals is in major cities where most of the clients are, guess what? That's right, on some government medical care. The current government programs, medicare and medicaid not only pay very little for services they also pay very late! (which is why every doctor is trying to rid themselves of all medicare/medicaid patients).

DJP said...

On guns:

There is a difference between (say) some liberal totalitarian idealist realizing that his most intransigent "change"-resistors are his citizens who actually believe and practice the Bible, and making Christianity a capital offence...

...and members of an increasingly lawless and desperate populace endangering my family.

Turning my cheek and dying for my faith is one thing.

Turning my family's cheek and letting them suffer violence is quite another.

Anonymous said...

CR and Sir Aaron,

I'm not arguing that our system is great and yours is failed. Far from it. I understand the health care system in the U.S., insurance issues excluded, works well.
But many Canadians don't understand the fuss because their experiences mirror my own.

I do think that to say it works well, except for insurance, is a bit of a non-starter, simply because health care that can bankrupt an individual can't be considered good health care. And I realize that is not the situation of the majority, but from up here, it seems to be a bigger problem than maybe it really is.


On guns, I agree with that totally. I would defend my family.

But a quick question on that. What of the Christians in China's "Glorious Revolution". Should they have armed themselves against Mao's mobs, since the violence was against anyone percieved to be a threat and Christian persecution wasn't the systemic thing that it eventually became?
It's a tricky thing to get right I think. At what point does general lawlessness become persecution?

I'm certainly not a pacifist but still it's a tough thing to sort out.

Aaron said...


there is certainly a lot of room for improvement in the US health system. Unfortunately, government is to blame for a lot of the problems that already exist.

Secondly, in America health care only bankrupts one person. In Canada, it will eventually bankrupt the entire nation. Or you'll simply have rationing which is what is widely documented to be taking place there now.

Anonymous said...

Aaron (Sir),

True enough.

Anonymous said...

Turning my cheek and dying for my faith is one thing.

Turning my family's cheek and letting them suffer violence is quite another.

That would be my position as well, including neighbors and strangers along with family.

CR said...

Anyone wanting to see the effects of government run healthcare can see this study.

GrammaMack said...

CR, you said, "What I am saying GrammaMack is that Canadians are not 'blessed' for the healthcare system they have...Your universal healthcare system...doesn't even compare to the United States." I wonder if all of those Americans without insurance would agree.

You seem to be magnifying the problems in our system and ignoring the benefits, while at the same time magnifying the good things in your system and minimizing the problems.

Compared to the majority of people in the world, including those in Puerto Rico and all of those Americans without insurance, Canadians are blessed. And I assert once again that it is something that I have been personally convicted to thank God for repeatedly.

Aaron said...


Who are all those American, of which you speak? There are very few Americans that don't chose to go without insurance (i.e. they could afford it but chose not to pay for it) that aren't already covered by some form of government insurance plan.

The question is not whether YOU are blessed, but whether Canadians in general are blessed by the current health system. The fact of the matter is that you took more from the health care system than you put in. Such a system cannot last if everyone does that. So to compensate, the system must reduce benefits or take increasingly from those who have money. And I can guarantee that there is not a single town in the United States that is holding a lottery for the mere opportunity to obtain an MRI.

CR said...

Sir Aaron: The question is not whether YOU are blessed, but whether Canadians in general are blessed by the current health system.

Thanks, Sir Aaron, that's what I'm trying to say.

Aaron said...

I must have the gift of "interpretation." Maybe if I were a charismatic. LOL


GrammaMack said...

Sir Aaron: "The question is not whether YOU are blessed, but whether Canadians in general are blessed by the current health system."

At the risk of sounding rude, duh. Of course that's the question. Of course I am not talking about me personally but about Canadians as a whole, using some personal examples as illustrations.

Whether it fits your ideology or not, we are blessed by our system, which may not be perfect but is better than what most people in the world have. What I don't get is why you can't acknowledge this, but this may be a clue: "I can guarantee that there is not a single town in the United States that is holding a lottery for the mere opportunity to obtain an MRI."

Why must everything in Canada be inferior to the U.S.? Why can't you acknowledge the problems there and the blessings here? Why must my viewpoint as a Canadian be twisted to narrow thinking only about myself? It's obvious that there's no point in discussing it further.

DJP said...

Sorry, I was one comment slow.

I'm going to close this thread. I think both sides have had their say for now.

Gramma Mack, I don't know if you know American history better than I know Canadian history — which is not-much. You probably do.

It's a big thing to us who know and love the ideal that is America. The issue is not so much whether you had better care there than someone else here. It is that the entire motivating, central idea of America's founding was liberty and individual responsibility against a basically Judeo-Christian worldview and within a framework of law.

The vision of the (flawed, but genius) Founding Fathers was a very lean, limited government guaranteeing justice and liberty for a very free, personally-responsible citizenry. It was no part of the government to provide for citizens; that was their part. Government was to "provide for the common defense," but only "promote the general welfare" by security from attack, a justice system, and guarantees of individual freedom.

Everything beyond that that the government takes over is a further erosion of that idea.

I think that's really the bottom-line.

So please, you really are free to comment and share your own feelings about your system, and whatever else you want to share, within the blog rules. I'm glad you did, and please keep it up.

But you'll hear most of us continue to try to explain why we want no part of it.

Hope that makes sense.

DJP said...

Argh! I screwed up!!

When I said I was one comment late, I WAS NOT referring to Gramma Mack's comment.

As soon as I saw hers, I purposed to write one more comment and close the thread. But before I was able to finish my comment, ANOTHER commenter posted yet another disagreement with Gramma.

I wanted to let Gramma have the last word, as I felt bad about the way she felt she was being personally attacked for giving thanks for the health care she'd received.

So when I said I was one comment late, I was referring to the comment I had to delete (arguing with Gramma), and not Gramma's comment.

Sorry for the confusion I unintentionally caused by referring to a now-invisible (deleted) comment.